r/todayilearned Jan 22 '22 Silver 1

TIL that after Pennsylvania State Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer committed suicide before he was sentenced to prison, he was still employed in that position. His widow successfully applied for survivors benefits and received over $1 Million as he died while in office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Budd_Dwyer#Death_benefits
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u/UtetopiaSS Jan 22 '22

Is this the guy the took the gun out of the envelope and shot himself on live tv during a press conference?

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u/Since_been Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22

The amount of blood that pours of his nose/mouth will forever be a memory in my brain.

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u/IrisMoroc Jan 22 '22

Yeah, he over did it with that 357 magnum. A 38 special revolver would kill him but create less of a mess.

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u/KP_Wrath Jan 22 '22

One of my classmates did it with a .22 and it lodged in his sinuses. Lots of reconstructive surgery to unfuck him.

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u/IrisMoroc Jan 22 '22

When Christine Chubbuck killed herself, she made sure to do a story on suicide and then ask the police department which methods worked the most reliably then followed through with it. They recommended the .38 special revolver. A .22 is a tiny round, often too weak to penetrate the skull.

Several weeks before she died, she told Mike Simmons, 26, the news director, that she wanted to do a film piece on suicide. He gave her the go-ahead. She called the local police department and discussed methods of suicide with one of the officers. She was told that to kill oneself with a gun the "best" method was to use a .38 caliber pistol. And to be absolutely sure of success, a wadcutter, a slug that disintegrates into tiny pieces in the body, should be used. She was also told that the gun should be pointed, not at the temple, which wouldn't necessarily kill, but at the lower back of the head It is there that the heart and lungs, the life functions are sustained. When Chris Chubbuck killed herself, she followed those instruction.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/88793046/christine-chubbuck-2/

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u/KP_Wrath Jan 22 '22

Yeah, to another person’s comment on how rarely death is truly instant, about the only way to really get an instant death is severe brain stem trauma.

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u/sealjosh Jan 22 '22

I'm a paramedic and I've seen 1 person shoot themselves in the head and survive initially. Put the gun in his mouth and aimed up towards the top of his head. Didn't hit the brain stem at all, but had an exit wound with exposed brain matter. Guy had a bounding pulse, great blood pressure, and even an intact gag reflex when I went to intubate.

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u/Utaneus Jan 22 '22

I had a patient shoot himself with a .22 rifle and survive. The craziest thing was after he got out of surgery and recovered, he was shocked he would do such a thing because he felt happy and never remembered being depressed. He had some memory and cognition problems but overall felt good and happy and went on to enjoy his retirement. He basically lobotomized himself with a firearm. I can't recommend that though.

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u/TheNaskgul Jan 22 '22

Thanks for letting us know .22 self-lobotomies aren’t ideal. Guess I’ll just use an ice pick like a normal person

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u/LetsPlayCalvinball Jan 22 '22

An ice pick might just get us another Phineas Gage where you'll just be rude to people. The definitive way to go is tying balloons to a chair and lift off

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u/Howlibu Jan 22 '22

I saw a video of a teen girl who shot herself through the chin and basical blew her face off. She lived, but now she's disabled enough her family takes care of her. I hope she can get a face transplant, or whatever it takes for her to live a full life. So young..

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u/Wiki_pedo Jan 22 '22 Gold

And it will destroy your stack, unfortunately.

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u/MrBigBMinus Jan 22 '22

Unless you have a backup, in which case you just won't remember the last few hours. But that always bugged me, that's technically not your stack so wouldn't that be like cloning yourself and you would still die but there would just be another you with all your memories from the last download? Like a 6th Day kinds thing.

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u/notmyrealusernamme Jan 22 '22

Which is also what appears to happen with Star Trek style teleportation. You get scanned, a "copy" of you (the instructions to rebuild you) is uploaded to the buffer, you are atomically deconstructed (killed), and then you (actually a prestige-style clone that believes it is you) show up at the destination.

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u/LastKnownWhereabouts Jan 22 '22

That's what happens if you believe the transporter doesn't also reconstruct you at the destination, or if you think being reconstructed out of the same material you were deconstructed from makes you a clone.

There are some characters, like McCoy, with transporter phobia, especially after all the episodes where it malfunctions. But there's a good amount of stories (though some aren't TV canon) that do explicitly say the transporter doesn't kill you, and transported people have consciousness throughout the process (meaning they don't "end" and then get restarted, they are alive the whole time).

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u/Flamchicken12 Jan 22 '22

Working as a paramedic I've had a person who shot themselves with a .45 through and through from the left side above the ear out the otherside. They were still alive when we got there, not in good shape and ending up dying. But their eyes were still moving around and their vital signs as well as cardiac rhythm were still decent when we got there.

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u/Nosfermarki Jan 22 '22 Silver

My dad did the under the chin method with a 9mm. Shot through his tongue, roof of his mouth, sinuses, frontal lobe, and exited the top of his skull. He lived. He was on a feeding tube for 6 months because he couldn't swallow. He didn't know what happened for months. My mom, who he had beaten severely and tried to kill just before this, saved his life when she could have just ran for help.

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u/rhymeswithvegan Jan 22 '22

That sounds very traumatic for you and your mother. I hope you are both doing okay.

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u/RequiredPsycho Jan 22 '22

Yours seems like some of the most hardcore experience a person could have. No disrespect intended, I hope y'all found some good therapy and maybe a bit of peace

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u/Nosfermarki Jan 22 '22

It was and it continues to be. It impacts your life in a million ways. It's important to talk about, though. My experience is not at all unique and American culture tends to have this idea that people who do these things are monsters. We convince ourselves that we would see the signs. We'd never let it happen to us. Since monsters are so recognizable, we'd know them when we see them. This is dangerous, because we assume someone who isn't immediately recognized as a monster must not be. That leads to victims being confused, those around them downplaying it, and often the monster faces no consequences at all.

Unless you've been on the wrong side of a dangerous, angry man who will burn it all down if he doesn't get what he's entitled to, you'd never see it. They're not the criminal on the street corner you steer clear of. They're the captain of the football team, the decorated Marine, the family man, the wealthy ceo, the guy at work who'd give you the shirt off his back, your best friend from high school, the charismatic, compassionate guy everyone loves. It's the guy that would never hurt anyone. But he does.

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u/Hulasikali_Wala Jan 22 '22

Yeah taking out the brain stem is pretty much immediate lights out

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u/FavorsForAButton Jan 22 '22

Here’s the thing: I’m about 69% sure the afterlife is a coping mechanism of a dying brain. The more “intact” the brain, the more detailed/gratifying the afterlife. Therefore, I wouldn’t want a truly instant death, but a death instant enough that I still get to experience my own brain’s imagination of what comes next.

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u/TickleMyTikiBone Jan 22 '22 'MURICA

And to be absolutely sure of success, a wadcutter, a slug that disintegrates into tiny pieces in the body, should be used.

That is absolutely not what wadcutters are

Three types of handgun ammo, full metal jacket ball on the left, wadcutter in the middle, jacketed hollow point on the right

Wadcutter is a flat cylinder shaped round developed for competition hand gun shooting because it leaves a very clean round hole in the paper making it easier to identify and score shots. It's also often a somewhat lower power round.

example of wadcutter benefits

Wadcutter can make sense in certain scenarios against humans because just like on paper it makes a very clean large hole leading to a lot of bleeding. The traditional ball ammo like above pushes flesh and muscle aside like it does on paper making a smaller hole.

Wadcutter is popular as a defensive round in snub nose revolvers because they don't develop enough velocity for hollow points to work.

The only rounds that disintegrate are frangible ammunition.

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u/Aurum555 Jan 22 '22

They technically make hollow points that are designed to break pieces off as well although they are the vast minority. The Rip bulldog rounds come to mind. But they didn't exist back then

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u/vacri Jan 22 '22

but at the lower back of the head It is there that the heart and lungs,

Lower middle of the head - that's the brainstem that keeps the basics going. Lower back of the head is the cerebellum, used for trained movements (things like walking, bike riding, etc), though if you're pointing at it from the front, you will be going through the brainstem.

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u/nudiecale Jan 22 '22

This discussion is pretty detailed and disturbing. At the very least there should be one of those suicide hotline posts stickied to the top of the comments.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

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u/PM_ME_MH370 Jan 22 '22

Also heard of a few cases of this. In general eating the gun runs a decent risk of it not being quick or painless. Not sure why it became so popular

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u/marsattaksyakyakyak Jan 22 '22

Depends on where you send it into your brain. Most people tend to fire into the front section of their brain which is where the sinus cavity and non-essential brain activity is. The back of the brain is where the important shit is at.

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u/omegacrunch Jan 22 '22

GI Joooooooeeeee

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u/skeezy Jan 22 '22

Who wants a body massage?

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u/KP_Wrath Jan 22 '22

Kurt Cobain and Budd Dwyer, probably. Also that pic from Facebook’s old days where dude shot the top of his head off and his eyes landed back on top, looking a lot like Sid the Sloth.

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u/Steve_Lobsen Jan 22 '22

Cobain used a shotgun, and also took a lethal dose of heroin right before.

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u/KP_Wrath Jan 22 '22

And your average gun in the mouth aficionado probably doesn’t know the full prep work.

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u/luxii4 Jan 22 '22

I remember when two dudes committed suicide together while listening to Judas Priest. One survived and they showed pics of him and I remembering that image haunting my dreams. His parents sued Judas Priest because of “dumb liminal messages”. The parents didn’t win the case and the kid died a few months later. Every with that shot off face, I remember them saying he regretted it and actually wish to live.

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u/niamhweking Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22

Yes that story is so shocking and heart breaking.

Also what you say about him wishing he lived I was watching a UK show this week where they cover a call from 999 call centre to the response of the police. They were with a man on a bridge, he was suicidal, fecked up a bit, left his family that night, was feeling hopeless. They manhandled him into a cop car and the catch up at the end of the show said he got the help, madeup with his wife and was happy in life. It really struck me how "fixable" his situation was and he just couldn't see it that night. Im So glad a passer by phoned 999

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u/TheMacerationChicks Jan 22 '22 Silver Gold Wholesome

Except he tried to kill himself again, and was successful that time. He died by a drug overdose.

This is the problem with people going "ah see all suicidal people actually want to live". It's not true. There's a difference between wanting to die, and not wanting to live. Depression is like the latter, not the former. Humans like all animals are evolved to be terrified of dying. So yeah, in the moment, they get scared of dying. Because it's an instinctual reaction. Depression is not really that you want to die, it's that you don't want to live anymore. It's a really really big difference. Every time I survived any of the attempts I did, it never got better. I just eventually managed to find the right medication. And managed to get off drugs, which were making it worse. But I'm still not really happy. I just manage to not die. Me and my doctor kept trying new medications until we found one that really works, and it's mainly because it has the "side effect" of knocking me out, so I get guaranteed sleep every night for the first time in my adult life. When I don't sleep, I get psychosis from the schizophrenia I've got, and then I get depression from the psychosis. I used to have to get blackout drunk to be able to sleep, and alcohol just made my mental state worse in the long run.

I would try and take sleeping pills a lot to try and help me nod off, but it didn't work most of the time. But yeah, I didn't want to die necessarily, I just didn't want to be alive anymore, and I would dream about somehow managing to put myself in a coma, so that I didn't die, but I also didn't have to be conscious and awake and miserable every second of the day. That's why a lot of people with depression try to sleep as much as possible. They don't want to have to continue being conscious and awake.

So yeah with situations like this, everyone goes "ah because they had the instinctual reaction of regret, that means they clearly want to live, and so really they're fine. Isn't life beautiful?“ and then abandon the suicidal person and that person ends up successfully killing themselves later on because they didn't get the help they needed, and the underlying issues were never fixed. People seem to have this weird belief that just because for a split second after jumping off the bridge they regretted jumping off, it means they're not "truly" suicidal. Which is a bizarre thing to claim. If someone gets to the point they're trying to kill themselves and nearly manage it, they're already in the worst mental health position that they can possibly be in. People often are baffled about how someone could want to kill themselves and they don't understand it either. People with mental illnesses like depression don't want to kill themselves either, they just don't want to live anymore. That's why there's so many people commiting suicide by cop, and things like that. Because they can't bring themselves to do it themselves, but they still don't want to live anymore, so they find a way to make that happen. It's incredibly agonising when you're suicidal, because you're fighting the aversion to pain and death to try and make yourself able to go through with it. It's the hardest thing to do, because you're fighting millions of years of evolution.

Being afraid of dying doesn't mean that you don't want to die.

It's like the people in the world trade center on 9/11. They jumped out of the windows, because it was a better option than burning to death. Suicidal people are in that position too, they're pushed to the edge, and they become desperate enough that their conscious desire to not live anymore finally becomes stronger than their instinctual aversion to pain and death.

Suicidal people don't usually just try once and then it they live then they're fine forever after. They probably will try again. They'll find less painful ways to do it. Quicker ways. They'll get incredibly drunk before doing it because it's the only way to override their instinctual subconscious aversion to death.

Severe mental health problems don't just go away like magic. And for many people they don't ever go away even with the best therapy and the best medication. So they keep trying to kill themselves, over and over, until eventually they're successful. But people seemingly wanna abandon them because one time they tried to kill themselves but felt a split second of regret about it.

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u/medusa_crowley Jan 22 '22

You get it. You get it exactly.

I’m grateful to have found enough stability and happiness that this is no longer my life, but it was for a long time, and the “see, the crisis moment has passed which means they’re fine now” thing was the worst part. The absolute worst part by a million miles.

Managing to make your life better with no external support and a brain that doesn’t want to suffer anymore is the most strength I think any person can have. People who haven’t endured it do not understand it.

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u/Wiki_pedo Jan 22 '22

I read that people who survive suicide attempts largely wish they hadn't tried to commit suicide. It was based on interviews with people who survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, if I remember correctly, but it was a while ago.

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u/Rocky87109 Jan 22 '22

I wonder if that's in the short term or the long term. Like when you do a heavy psychedelic, afterwards a lot of the time you'll get a feeling of "man I'm laying off [insert bad habit]" but then a week or two go by and you are back to your regular self.

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u/_Surprisingly Jan 22 '22

I think it's short term. It's been awhile since I've seen the doc that guy is referencing but I'm pretty sure it mentions that a lot of the survivors end up trying again

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u/Somegeezer Jan 22 '22

he regretted it and actually wish to live.

A common thread in survivors of suicide attempts. Right at that point of no return, they suddenly realise they actually want to return.

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u/Boneapplepie Jan 22 '22

"I suddenly realized that all my problems were solveable, except my decision to jump off the ledge. How ironic"

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u/123throwawayhelpme Jan 22 '22

It's a biological instinct. We are hardwired to want to survive.

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u/p0werbaldrick Jan 22 '22

Wtf

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u/Legendofstuff Jan 22 '22

Old internet was truly a sight to behold

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u/omegacrunch Jan 22 '22

Like the wild west, old internet lasted for a much shorter time frame than is popularly thought

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u/quannum Jan 22 '22

But it was a hell of a time while it lasted

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u/MichJohn67 Jan 22 '22

pours one out for rotten.com

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u/Myrandall 109 Jan 22 '22

pours two more out for /r/watchpeopledie and LiveLeak

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u/FizzyOrangeJuice Jan 22 '22

When you come at yourself you better not miss!

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u/Baalsham Jan 22 '22

Better to go overkill than under.

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u/Goalie_deacon Jan 22 '22

Likely still a lot of blood, because the heart doesn't stop right away, and head wound is the worst for bleeding. I had to sit through a murder trial, where the victim bled out, instead of dying directly from the .22 to his head. He not only survived the bullet, he called people he knew, and was quite cognitive till a vein ruptured in his head. They have no way of stopping an internal brain bleed.

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u/joezeto187 Jan 22 '22

I don't believe that's true. The mess isn't really from the brain matter being blown out it's from his artery that pumps blood into his head that is severed that causes the mess. that's why there's so much blood. his heart is pumping all his blood out of his body through his nasal passages and mouth like a Hawaiian punch water fountain of death

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u/alexbudpink Jan 22 '22

I was in awe and disgusted. I didn't realize how much blood is up there until the day I watched the video.

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u/DesignerGrocery6540 Jan 22 '22

Damn dude, you can't make your own blood?

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u/johnmichael2356 Jan 22 '22

The amount of blood that pours of his nose/mouth will forever be in my brain.

Ok, because it isn’t in his brain anymore

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u/Sega-Playstation-64 Jan 22 '22

Praisethecameraman material there, guy filming didn't even flinch.

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u/builtlikethewall Jan 22 '22

Today in 1987. Wild.

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u/omegacrunch Jan 22 '22

It's 80s edge. Ultra violence and tits

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u/MeximeltExtraCheese Jan 22 '22

Yes and the inspiration for the song “Hey Man, Nice Shot” by Filter.

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u/jackenstien Jan 22 '22

It might be the inspo for "Thank you Bud Dwyer" by Fit for an Autopsy. But that's a hunch

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u/burglekutttttt Jan 22 '22

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u/TheBigGreenOgre Jan 22 '22

I feel weird saying this, but r/praisethecameraman? Dude had the presence of mind in that situation to fucking zoom in on that shit instead of just noping out. Wow.

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u/owlpee Jan 22 '22

Don't panic?! They just saw that happen before their eyes!

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u/Sherlockhomey Jan 22 '22

Idk why I watched wtf

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u/ManualPancake Jan 22 '22

Spawned the joke: what's the difference between Bud Light and Bud Dwyer? Bud Light has a head on it.

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u/Dan_Berg Jan 22 '22

You shotgun a Bud Light. You .357 a Bud Dwyer.

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u/Common_Coyote_3 Jan 22 '22

Another one: What do you do with a wet gun?

Put it in a Dwyer.

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u/donnamatrix79 Jan 22 '22

According to Wikipedia, the press release wasn’t broadcast live: the news shows CHOSE to broadcast it after the fact.

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

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u/MainPFT Jan 22 '22

Idk Wikipedia might be wrong on this one. I'm pretty sure it was live and the news played portions during the six o'clock news.

Hopefully someone that has more knowledge will come along and know for sure.

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u/johnson56 Jan 22 '22

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/90515700/robert-budd-dwyer-suicide/

The bottom left article on this newspaper details how the news networks wrestled with the idea of whether or not to air the footage they had, and they ultimately did decide to air it after the fact.

It doesn't say whether or not a live broadcast occurred, but that the decision was made to air the footage after they had it and had time to consider it.

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u/xiaxian1 Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22

I saw it on TV when I was in a local video rental store because it was a snow day in PA and we weren’t in school.

Edit: this article confirms some stations carried it live: https://www.wgal.com/amp/article/budd-dwyer-public-suicide-pennsylvania-state-treasurer-1642785747/38845511

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u/donnamatrix79 Jan 22 '22

Yup my bad! I made some assumptions. Based on the description of how long and rambly it was, and how some of the reporters even started packing up to leave halfway through, it didn’t seem like the sort of thing anyone would be broadcasting live. Other websites confirmed that it was.

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u/Amyfelldownthestairs Jan 22 '22

I saw that live... home from elementary school with a fever watching TV. For years my mom convinced me it was just a violent movie (that preempted the daytime TV I was already watching). Once I grew up and found out the story was real, I asked about it and she said fessed up that she made up the movie story. She said it was awful and didn't want me to be traumatized. Fair.

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u/ViceEarth Jan 22 '22

Good thinking by your mom!

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u/mcvirgil412 Jan 22 '22

My eighth grade history teacher showed us the video in class.

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u/GhettoChemist Jan 22 '22

Hmm how can I use my position as an 8th grade history teacher to permanently scar these children?

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u/brucekeller Jan 22 '22

We didn't see THAT in my class, but Schindler's List was still pretty rough for a 12 year old.

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u/Flying_Dutchman92 Jan 22 '22

That one scene with the balcony, dude.

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u/ColgateSensifoam Jan 22 '22

We had to turn the film off and take a five minute break after that scene, I understand now that it's supposed to be incredibly dark and upsetting, but that's the one point in the movie where everyone in the class started laughing

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u/Vulpix-Rawr Jan 22 '22

That’s a normal stress response from kids. Middle school is way too young. I watched it in high school and it didn’t affect me too much, I was fascinated with WW2 and I was watching all the historical dramas.

I watched it again after having a kid and the scene with the girl absolutely wrecked me.

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u/RedditPowerUser01 Jan 22 '22

As get older, I find that I get more upset by violence. I’ve had enough life experience now to know what trauma is like and the devastating long lasting consequences of death and violence.

It makes me think about why they send 18 year olds to war, not 30 year olds. Sure, 18 year olds are more in their physical prime. But they’re also much more naive to the real and long lasting effects of violence.

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u/Reverie_39 Jan 22 '22

I think that’s how a lot of children react to tragic events they can’t really process yet. I’ve read about classrooms experiencing the same thing when they saw the Challenger blow up on live TV.

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u/eleighbee Jan 22 '22

My class saw the second plane hit the towers. One kid started laughing. Someone else told him to shut up. We were 15/16.

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u/Star_Road_Warrior Jan 22 '22

I didn't even know 9/11 had happened until like 4pm that day when I finally got home from my empty elementary school (90% of students got picked up)

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u/TistedLogic Jan 22 '22

My dad literally woke me up about 5 minutes before my alarm to tell me to come look at the news. I went to class that day (college) but the mood and ambiance of the school was shocked, sullen silence.

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u/dlawnro Jan 22 '22

Something similar happened to me, but I was in elementary school at the time. He woke us up and sat us down in front of the TV and said "Watch this, because some day your kids are going to be reading about it in their history textbooks." Really gave the event a unique perspective for me.

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u/eleighbee Jan 22 '22

They didn't send us home, and I don't remember anyone leaving school, but there weren't any classes the rest of the day. Well, we went from period to period, but didn't do anything except watch the news.

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u/obigespritzt Jan 22 '22

In my opinion, Schindler's List is a great piece of media that tackles the NS Regime and Holocaust in a profound way while still being "entertaining" enough to where even 12 year olds are going to be paying close attention.

That being said, it definitely requires discussion and reflection to allow young teens to process what they're seeing.

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u/_Californian Jan 22 '22

We went to the museum of tolerance in 8th grade, I still have the pamphlet talking about one of the children that was murdered.

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u/CeterumCenseo85 Jan 22 '22

In Germany we watched Full Metal Jacket in 8th grade.

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u/Segat1133 Jan 22 '22

HOW DO I SCAR DEEEEESSSSS KEEEEEEDSSSSS

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u/MrSpencerMcIntosh Jan 22 '22

When I was in 6th or 7th grade, our teacher showed us Bowling For Columbine.

I could literally feel my childhood leaving me when that bit with the bombs and Louis Armstrong singing “what a wonderful world” came on.

Still fucks me up to think about it

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u/Shadesmctuba Jan 22 '22

Jesus. My dumb friends and I watched that video along with pain olympics and the other fucked up videos of death and car accidents. I couldn’t imagine watching it in class.

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u/AlexanderTox Jan 22 '22

Totally repressed Pain Olympics until you just brought it up. Thanks.

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u/Nailclippers Jan 22 '22

The one you've likely seen you'll be happy to hear was fake.

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u/AlexanderTox Jan 22 '22

I choose to believe that everything that I saw on the internet in the early 2000’s was fake.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

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u/Vulpix-Rawr Jan 22 '22

Tub girl was done by a Japanese artist.

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u/Rocky87109 Jan 22 '22

In driver's ed they showed us people's brains hanging out of their head. I wonder if they still do that. This was in like 2005.

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u/samw424 Jan 22 '22

Pretty sure I found it online not knowing what I was watching around the same age, surprised the shit out if me.

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u/Gualdrapo Jan 22 '22

I mean, it's available in YouTube. For some reason.

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u/alexbudpink Jan 22 '22

This man's suicide video is on YouTube meanwhile the most controversial music video of the 90s can't even be found on there. YouTube is very hypocritical.

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u/BlackBartRidesAgain Jan 22 '22

Fucking why….? I’m an educator, and that sounds like the dumbest/most unprofessional shit.

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u/diff2 Jan 22 '22

Around that time period sex ed is taught which I believe is basically "show the grosses std videos you can find".

So either teachers in middle school are given free reign to expose children to controversial topics, or it is encouraged to do so.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

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u/thesuperhemanshow Jan 22 '22

I'm a news photojournalist and while digging around in the attic at the station, I found our original 3/4 tape of it. Did not watch, it got handed over to the news director. Over the years of working at TV stations in Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, I've heard stories from people in the room when it happened.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

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u/KaneIntent Jan 22 '22

Head wounds tend to bleed a lot, even from superficial wounds. Not sure what the anatomical explanation is.

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u/chrom_ed Jan 22 '22

I'm pretty sure it's just "your brain needs a lot of blood to keep working".

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u/shane201 Jan 22 '22

What the heck. That teacher is an idiot for showing 13 year old such things.

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u/unicyclebrah Jan 22 '22

I remember this was one of the first videos that truly disturbed me. My friend showed it to me in 7th or 8th grade, and it just.. changed how I saw the world.

Only saw it once but I never forgot his name or got the image of his suddenly lifeless body out of my mind and that’s been probably 10-15 years ago.

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u/Fun-Title-5455 Jan 22 '22

I get what you're saying about violence changing your perspective. I used to think people who argued for diplomacy were cowards until I saw a video of a 5 year old girl with half her head blown off by artillery shelling. I was younger at the time and became a "let's exercise every option possible before resorting to war" person almost instantly. Sometimes war is inevitable, but knowing the consequences are dead & maimed children is something people should always remember.

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u/ubersmitty Jan 22 '22

Filters- "hey man nice shot" was written because of this

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u/Irbyirbs Jan 22 '22

Fun fact: Filter's lead vocalist's brother is Robert Patrick (T-1000).

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u/trailer_trash1 Jan 22 '22

Have you seen this boy?

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u/Cougardoodle Jan 22 '22

What a good shot, man!

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u/baconography Jan 22 '22

Heeeeyyyyyyy, maaaaaaaan, niiiiiiiiice goin'

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u/Pfffftttttt_Okay Jan 22 '22

Huh, all these years I thought he said niiiiiiiice gun.

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u/dabobbo Jan 22 '22

Huh, I always thought it was "nice goin'" too, but out of curiosity I looked up the lyrics, and every lyric site says the chorus is:

A man

Has gun

Hey man

Have fun

Nice shot

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u/SomeoneTookUserName2 Jan 22 '22

Those that were right there, have a new kind of fear.

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u/Acewrap Jan 22 '22

I watched this live when I was home from school for a snow day

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u/TerpBE Jan 22 '22

I had a snow day too, but I think most people who say they watched it "live" are mistaken. They cut into local programming to show it after he shot himself. Nobody cared enough about a press conference from a treasurer to interrupt their regular shows, and even if a station did, what kid would keep watching it?

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u/xiaxian1 Jan 22 '22

This article confirms some stations were showing it live: https://www.wgal.com/amp/article/budd-dwyer-public-suicide-pennsylvania-state-treasurer-1642785747/38845511

I saw it in a local video rental store because we were home for a snow day.

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u/DankiusMMeme Jan 22 '22

Growing up pre internet must have been boring as fuck if kids were watching a local access channel of state treasurer giving a impromptu press conference.

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u/SofieTerleska Jan 22 '22

Some families just tended to have the TV on by default, and depending on where you lived, if you didn't have cable the offerings could be pretty grim.

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u/MacDaddyTheMan0095 Jan 22 '22

Is this the video where he hands out envelopes to everyone and shoots himself in the head with a snub nose and gets a huge nose bleed afterwards? Shit fucked me up as a young teen..

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u/IrisMoroc Jan 22 '22

Not a snub nose, it's a 357 Colt magnum with a 4 inch barrel. You can see the barrel size in this image:

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/90515769/robert-budd-dwyer-associated-press/

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u/MacDaddyTheMan0095 Jan 22 '22

Haha as you can see, my memory of the gun being incorrect is proof of my brain trying to misplace the events of that video as much as possible!

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u/IrisMoroc Jan 22 '22

Are you confusing it with Christine Chubbeck's suicide? She used a snub nosed .38 special revolver.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/88793015/christine-chubbuck-suicide/

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u/MacDaddyTheMan0095 Jan 22 '22

No it was probably just the fact that I was 13 when it was the crazy liveleak video all the kids were talking about that week in school and I’m almost 27 now lol. Never seen the one you posted though and I’ve seen all the popular ones. 3 Guys 1 hammer, guy throwing himself off Hoover Dam, probably some more fucked up shit I can’t remember at the moment but thankfully seeing all that shit made me realize I ain’t ever going to be suicidal again.

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u/Kazzack Jan 22 '22

huge nose bleed

Haven't watched the video and never will, but I think that's a bit of an understatement

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u/Peter_deT Jan 22 '22

Actually, classic move. Upper class Romans charged with crimes often committed suicide - that way their estate was not forfeit along with their life. Also common in China. Maybe he knew a bit of history?

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u/brucekeller Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22

Many teens of the 90's got to see this guy and stabby throat slav guy as part of their indoctrination to the internet.

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u/ninjaweedman Jan 22 '22

And the dude tied between two jeeps that drive off in opposite directions.

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u/brucekeller Jan 22 '22

Oh man, glad I missed that one lol.

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u/TheDustOfMen Jan 22 '22

I suddenly get flashbacks to 'three guys, one hammer'. Horrific.

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u/awnawkareninah Jan 22 '22

The audio from that one is truly horrifying.

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u/bohica1937 Jan 22 '22

Was that the soldier that was face down on the ground and the camera is zoomed in on his face and beck as someone puts a knige thru the side of his neck?

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u/brucekeller Jan 22 '22

Yep, with a boot or knee holding him down.

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u/bohica1937 Jan 22 '22

That's the one. Probably one of the most disturbing things I've seen. The look in that guys eyes is haunting.

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u/sierrabravo1984 Jan 22 '22

That was the video that made me realize that people don't die instantly by throat slashing like in the media. Same with gunshots, it's not instant.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

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u/cathalferris Jan 22 '22

It's pretty much why the guillotine was chosen, as a humane method of causing death.

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u/godzilla9218 Jan 22 '22

More consistent than some drunk dude with a dull axe as well.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

That one fucked me right up. I stopped watching that kind of shit years ago.

I've seen enough crazy shit in reality at this point to where I don't need any more.

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u/NuclearCandy Jan 22 '22

I remember back in the late 90s-early 00s how it was like a challenge for kids to watch all the gory videos on the internet to... prove their bravery? Desensitize themselves? I don't know. I do know that our brains were not developed enough to fully understand the gravity of the content.

Even if you didn't seek it out, it was so easy to encounter that stuff by accident. Limewire could be downloading my intended Spice World video, or it could be porn, or horrible gore, or just a virus. Back then, websites didn't have all the resirect protocols if you typed in the URL wrong. Maybe you wanted Barbie.com but got Babie.com... 99% chance it's porn and/or gore.

The internet is definitely safer for children these days (even though it's an ongoing, evolving battle because the creeps out there are persistent). I think that has a lot to do with our generation having had access to the worst of what's out there at such a young age. We want to try our best to protect our children from that.

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u/Keep_a_Little_Soul Jan 22 '22

I remember I would watch complication videos on YouTube sometimes when I was bored. Your typical "people falling and failing" or "cute animals."

In the middle of the video people would put in Gore videos, I remember watching one and in the middle there was a video of a guy shooting himself in the head, another in an animal comp of someone hitting a deer with their car. I didn't watch them anymore without looking at the comments.

Early 2010's probably. On YouTube too!

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u/cavemanslaveman Jan 22 '22

Did you ever see that video from back then of someone being murdered with a hammer? I think it was in maybe in like Ukraine or something? It was sooo bad

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u/Athnik Jan 22 '22

Dneptrovsk Maniacs was the one.. I think.

That was my first, I’ve seen somewhere that they hanged and tortured animals as well.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

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u/BossAtlas Jan 22 '22

Unknown Russian Soldier. Yeah. Watched it like 20 years ago as a teen and it still sticks with me today.

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u/jeb_the_hick Jan 22 '22

It's the gurgled wheezing sounds that stick with you.

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u/hel112570 Jan 22 '22

We watched that in Army Basic Training in 2003 as the reason to not get captured and become a POW.

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u/my_name_is_reed Jan 22 '22

Saw it at my first duty station in Germany the same year, within the same context.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22 edited Mar 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22

I understand war is hell but for fuck's sake if you're gonna execute someone do it by firing squad or something quick.

I remember seeing an interview with two ISIS members before they were imprisoned/executed and they said they would use dull knives when beheading someone to make it more painful. Fuck...

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u/Bastuhingst Jan 22 '22

Is there a back story for it ?

Na, there's not a lot of back story behind the chechclear video, just a poor young Russian conscript that is beheaded by islamstic rebels/terrorists. There's been rumors and such over the years, even people claiming to have more of the video but no one has even posted said footage. There's a few still pictures that claim to be of the aftermath, but they are hard to find.

There were loads of videos that came out of the chechen conflicts but most of them were just sold between person to person on VHS tapes all over Russia and some ports of Europe. These clip was just one of those that were uploaded on the internet.

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u/DukeDijkstra Jan 22 '22

Yup, captured Russian soldier getting point blank head shot with AK-74 was first shock video I have ever seen on Internet.

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u/Bicentennial_Douche Jan 22 '22

I believe before he was killed, he told his captors his parents address, and they mailed them his severed head, along with the video.

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u/R1ckyRampag3 Jan 22 '22

That contractor one got me…. Right around maybe 15-16yo, not too young to fuck with me, but old enough to comprehend it more. The sound was the worst part… I still think about that video today.

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u/its_a_metaphor_morty Jan 22 '22

It was described as a Russian soldier being killed by Chechens.

The FSB tracked those Chechens down too. You can guess the rest.

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u/bcon_ny Jan 22 '22

ahh yes, chechreb video. I didnt need to sleep tonight, no worries.

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u/Bastuhingst Jan 22 '22

ahh yes, chechreb video.

chechclear.

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u/doylos Jan 22 '22

Consumption junction was the go to place for all this stuff. And rotten.com.

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u/IrisMoroc Jan 22 '22

While gorey, Budd's suicide does not bother me. He chose his path, and I can respect that decision. Someone being executed though is much worse.

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u/MiddleChildMooskitt Jan 22 '22

I think the only reason it bothered me was because of how real it was. Like he took the gun out and he was trying to reassure people first, and then just did it. The reaction in the room too was just haunting.

The thing that fucked me up the most though wasn’t even a video. It was that 911 audio recording of an old lady being attacked while on the phone

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u/AlternativeBasket Jan 22 '22

That was the reason he killed himself though. To preserve his benefits for his family.

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u/Swiggy1957 Jan 22 '22

According to his sister, he had no idea about that. Funny, as state treasurer, he'd have to know what taxpayer money covered.

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u/SweetLilMonkey Jan 22 '22

Nobody can know for sure that somebody else does not know something.

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u/Wyatt821 Jan 22 '22

Yeah his sister saying he didn't know about it really just means that she didn't know about it.

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u/waterbaby66 Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22

I was home sick from work that day and SAW IT ALL!!!!!!! I actually had TSS and was getting ready to go to ER as it has been a few days, and was watching my soaps when they cut in with a “live news report from local Senator”, and that was live TV back then and we saw brains slide down the perfectly white back drop……. It was scarring!!!!!!! God Bless His family and him🙏☮️

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u/cardboardunderwear Jan 22 '22

I'm totally okay with next of kin getting survivors' benefits from suicide. I've paid for life insurance my entire life. God forbid if I'm ever terminally ill or depressed to the point where I take my own life my family sure as hell better get that payout.

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u/sofingclever Jan 22 '22

In most states suicide isn't covered in the first 2 or 3 years, but after that it is.

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u/SweetLilMonkey Jan 22 '22

There’s a dark comedy series coming out soon that’s inspired by those wait times:

Will Forte is set to star and produce “Expiration Date,” a drama series in development at Peacock from “The Missing” duo Harry and Jack Williams, the streaming service announced Friday.

“Expiration Date” is described as a “dark suburban soap” about a man consumed by grief who finds a life insurance policy that covers suicide, provided that the individual doesn’t carry out the deed within one year.

Per NBC, “Content that his family will be provided for, Robin (Forte) sets his expiration date and contemplates how he will spend his final year. It’s going to be a long 12 months.”

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u/Amphibionomus Jan 22 '22

Well that sounds reasonable enough, I think.

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u/ancapmike Jan 22 '22

I don't know if it's true but I heard an anecdote on the internet that the TV station that was playing this was also scrolling the local school delays/closures from a snowstorm that morning so a bunch of kids eager to not go to school were glued to the TV and got to see it play out.

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u/AZfan6 Jan 22 '22

A couple years ago a DJ at the radio station I listen to (3FM) had a item where he would play tracks after telling the historical event said song was based on. One of them was 'Hey Man, Nice Shot' by Filter. I was interested in the story so I started browsing (I tuned in pretty late). I don't know where or how, but I found a video showing him shooting himself. Thinking about it after seeing this post alone gave me chills. If you haven't seen the video, do yourself a favour and STAY away from that video. DO NOT watch it!

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u/Dfiggsmeister Jan 22 '22

The video is pretty disturbing if you’ve never seen it. Nobody realized he was going to commit suicide in front of the press, until he pulled out the gun from a paper bag and pulled the trigger.

Edit: envelope not paper bag

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u/StylusCroissant Jan 22 '22

So much blood. It was like a river. *shudder*

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u/dresn231 Jan 22 '22

Just like how Aaron Hernandez hung himself and used that loophole that if you die while appealing your sentence in Massachusetts then you conviction essentially gets thrown out. Bad thing for him is that the Mass Supreme Court reinstated that murder conviction. With Budd that was really smart of him to blow his brains out the day before he went to prison. HIs family got to live off that 1 million dollars life insurance essentially.

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u/shudder667 Jan 22 '22

You said loophole lol

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u/zippyfan Jan 22 '22

What made me chuckle a bit is that from a financial perspective, the taxpayer didn't lose out on much.

Imprisoning people is really expensive. It ranges to thousands of dollars a day. Depending on how long he would be in prison for, he could cost the state more than what has been paid out to this family.

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u/Googalslosh Jan 22 '22 Gold Helpful All-Seeing Upvote

"Maybe a combination of sympathy and inability to research. I also believe the dreadful and bias documentary “Honest Man: The life of R. Budd Dwyer” has caused this. This documentary was edited purposefully to make it appear that William Smith lied about offering Dwyer a bribe.

It’s funny, people think that Dwyer was innocent on the basis of a single documentary starring only Dwyer’s family, friends, and ex colleagues….and they discount the guilty verdict made by jurors who saw ALL the evidence , a grand jury who indicted Dwyer, and all the professionals who worked on his case. Very stupid, yes.

Anyway, the “Honest Man” documentary doesn’t even make it clear that there were 2 trials: Smith’s 1985 trial, and Dwyer’s 1986 trial.

In the documentary, in one scene (lasting 5 or so seconds) Smith states the he was surprised that Dwyer accepted the money when he offered it to him. This indicates that Dwyer knew it was a bribe. Then, in a subsequent scene (lasting around 4 minutes) the film deceitfully attempts to show that Smith lied at Dwyer's trial because he was offered a plea bargain.

But this is not what happened, and not what Smith stated.

Smith stated in the documentary: "I testified that I didn't offer him (Dwyer) the bribe, but in fact I did". Smith here is referring to his own 1985 trial when he testified that he did not offer Dwyer a bribe. Instead, in this trial he shifted blame to (his co-defendant) John Torquato, saying it was Torquato who offered Dwyer the bribe. Smith did this simply to avoid a less serious conviction.

When the prosecution threatened to increase Smith’s jail time and also indict his wife, and when they showed him evidence of him admitting to offering the bribe in 1984, he finally told the truth and admitted that he offered Dwyer the bribe, and Dwyer accepted it. So in Dwyer’s 1985 trial he testified that he bribed Dwyer and Dwyer accepted the bribe.

However, Smith, although being the lead prosecution witness, was only one of many pieces of evidence against Dwyer. It was a trial last 6 or so weeks, and Smith was only on the stand for days.

Here is some (not all) of the evidence which convicted Dwyer.

  1. Dwyer pushed for legislation (working with Smith and Torquato) that would make him the only person who could award the FICA contract.

  2. Dwyer then gave the contract to a company (CTA) that had little experience and only 3 full time workers for $4.6 million dollars. However, there was a world famous company (Arthur Young and associates) with 300 employees offering the same services at only $2.3 million. The less expensive company even contacted him before he signed with CTA. Additionally, another 16 companies contacted Dwyer, all of which he ignored.

  3. When there was a tip-off into bribery involving the CTA contract, Dwyer tried repeatedly to stop the investigation into the awarding of the contract.

  4. Dwyer immediately cancelled the contract when he became aware that the FBI were investigating the awarding of it.

  5. Then when Dwyer was investigated he admitted telling his staff to hide proposal information (submitted by other companies) from the FBI.

  6. FBI agents testified that Dwyer attempted to conceal his involvement in the scheme when, after learning of the FBI investigation, he erased the entry in his appointment book of the meeting with Torquato and Smith in which he was first offered a bribe

  7. When Dwyer was indicted, he said it wasn't his decision to award the contract, but his "task-force" made the decision. However, Dwyer handled all matters with the contract for the 7 days before it was signed. He often had meetings with Smith and Torquato alone, specifically telling his aides to not come to these meetings.

  8. After Dwyer was indicted he asked, via his lawyer, the prosecutor for a deal: he would retire as state treasurer if the charges against him were dropped. The prosecutor didn't agree. Yet, Dwyer always said he would never accept a plea deal since he "did nothing wrong"!

  9. His bribe offer was found on John Torquato's computer, and 4 impartial witnesses all testified at Dwyer's trial that they were aware Dwyer was bribed. William T. Smith admitted in 1984 to bribing Dwyer. In 1985 he said he did not bribe Dwyer, but it was Torquato who bribed him. From1986 until the present day, Smith has always maintained that he bribed Dwyer, and that Dwyer accepted the bribe. Robert Asher, his co-defendent, also has acknowledged that Dwyer was bribed, and that he was trying to divert all of the bribe money to the Republican State Committee.

  10. Dwyer said he gave the contract to CTA because they provided a system of "immediate credit" . But on the CTA contract there was no information about this credit system. When other companies were asked why they were not awarded the contract, he never once mentioned that he gave the contract to CTA on the basis of this "immediate credit" system.

  11. Dwyer did not call one defense witness at his trial and did not take the stand himself. It is very likely that Dwyer did not testify since he did not want his involvement in a 1980 conspiracy to come to light. This conspiracy involved Dwyer's wife's business "Poli-Ed," and two Pennsylvania State Education Association employees. In this conspiracy, Dwyer allegedly siphoned money from his campaign into his own personal funds. Dwyer's close friend, a PSE employee called Fred Mckillop, got the sack because of this. Mckillop was in the documentary “Honest Man.”

  12. Towards the end of his life, Dwyer deceived all of those he was around (his family, friends, and colleagues): he let them all believe he was going to resign at the press conference, when he knew his true intention was to commit suicide.

  13. By committing suicide prior to his sentencing, he also exploited a loophole in PA law- he was a convicted felon, and as such, was not entitled to his pension money. He manipulated the system, once again, to his own advantage.

It's clear that Dwyer was guilty. The FBI investigated him, a grand jury indicted him, and a court jury (who saw all the evidence over a long period of time) convicted him. Dwyer's claims about political persecution were ridiculous; even one of his closest aids (James "Duke" Horshock) stated as such. Appeals after his death made by his lawyers were all rejected."

Great summation on Quora.

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u/aegis666 Jan 22 '22

came for factoids aabout the case, as it was super famous. what i got was graphic descriptions of the man's death, and a case of anxiety. i'm going outside.

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u/No-Pizda-For-You Jan 22 '22

The video is graphic. Even after 35 years, it’s still shocking.

Here’s the video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpe5KUGLYKU&bpctr=1642856978

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u/Deae_Hekate Jan 22 '22

With how he aims straight up through the hard palate that doesn't appear to be an instantaneous death. He took out some higher thought functions and, mercifully for him, the prefrontal cortex (responsible for interpreting pain), but it takes a couple seconds for his body to go completely limp after the initial collapse. Hopefully he was no longer aware but all the parts of the brain required to keep him alive were desperately trying to do their job; that's why there's so much blood, his heart was still receiving the signal to keep pumping.

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u/Austiz Jan 22 '22

Aim more at the brain got it

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u/Rahnamatta Jan 22 '22

The thing is, you can't practice (?)

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