r/technology May 15 '22 Wholesome 1

Elon Musk says Twitter legal team told him he violated an NDA. Social Media

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/elon-musk-says-twitter-legal-team-told-him-he-violated-an-nda-2022-05-15/
7.8k Upvotes

2.8k

u/420blazeit69nubz May 15 '22

He’s disclosing that he violated his non-disclosure agreement by disclosing something?

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u/saucybelly May 15 '22

I hope there’s a clause in the NDA saying the existence of the NDA is confidential

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

8 times out of 10 the agreement is explicitly considered confidential and the other 2 times it’s implicit.

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u/Kakyro May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

I've signed plenty of NDAs whose existence weren't confidential. If someone asked what I did at my last job I could safely reply I worked for X but I'm under NDA.

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u/take_this_down_vote May 15 '22

Merger and acquisition NDAs are a little different and almost always have language that say the existence of the agreement, or the status of negotiations (including any term or condition) are confidential.

The merger agreement would have a pretty vanilla confi term too. I haven’t bothered looking at the public filing but I’m sure it covers statements like “I’m going to do an random sample of 100 accounts to check for bots.”

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u/jorge1209 May 15 '22

The actual complaint isn't related to his initial tweet that he would do the sample but to a response for why he picked 100 users.

He answered that question by saying that 100 was the same number Twitter used.

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u/noteverrelevant May 15 '22

Sooo....what did you do at your last job?

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u/Kakyro May 15 '22

I worked for X but I'm under NDA

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u/captnmr May 15 '22

The existence of an NDA is not under the NDA. The terms of the NDAs are.

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u/psychosomaticism May 15 '22

Would you have to sign an NDA about the first NDA?

Is it just NDAs all the way down?!

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u/pablank May 15 '22

As you can see, it just doesnt work. You have to explain that you are under an NDA sometimes, so involved parties know when you would incriminate yourself so they know they can stop asking questions... theres NDAs everywhere. Especially on the level of business elon is doing. So its just easier to allow talking about them, since everyone assumes that not everything is open to the public anyway

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u/doublecane May 15 '22

In the US, many NDAs consider the relationship of the parties and the NDA confidential information, which would mean the NDA prohibits disclosure of the existence of itself. “Are you seeking a transaction with XYZ, Co.?” “No comment”

Agreed that sometimes a superseding principle may require disclosure to a third party. To accommodate this, NDAs generally permit disclosure of confidential information (including the existence of the relationship, the purpose, and the NDA itself) without requiring the consent of the disclosing party, when compelled by law, reg, agency, courts, etc. However it is also common to require the receiving party to provide the disclosing party prompt notice of such a request and the disclosing party usually reserves the right to seek protection.

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u/A1sauc3d May 15 '22

Non Disclosure Inception

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u/pablank May 15 '22

Correct. Told multiple clients I cannot answer fully due to being tied to an NDA and thats where the discussion stopped

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u/idontknowwhynot May 15 '22

Not always. Sometimes the existence of the NDA is covered in the NDA itself because the fact that two entities are engaged in business at all is highly confidential.

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u/tewnewt May 15 '22 Take My Energy

Eight out of ten of Trumps hookers agree.

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u/reagsters May 15 '22

Objection! Heresay!

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u/DonkeyOfCongo May 15 '22

He's desperately trying to get out of his drunken purchase. Worst hangover ever..

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u/MonsieurReynard May 15 '22

The only thing he's high on is the smell of his own entitled rich asshole farts.

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u/PIDthePID May 15 '22

When you multiply two negative disclosures makes it a positive.

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u/vincentvangobot May 15 '22

I'm starting to get the impression that this guy isn't very smart.

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u/Deer_foot888 May 15 '22

that's aspergers for you...

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u/RecipeNo42 May 15 '22

It's inception-levels of not knowing how to shut the fuck up.

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u/Flaky-Illustrator-52 May 15 '22 Take My Energy

I'm having trouble deciding what I find more shocking, an NDA violation or taking 100 as a sample size for measuring bots on twitter

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u/noghead May 15 '22

I'll one up your shock. The NDA violation is for revealing Twitter used a sample size of 100 to begin with!

446

u/link_dead May 15 '22

Even worse what no one is talking about is they took the first 100 followers from a very early timeframe long before the bot explosion happened.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/ShrimpCrackers May 15 '22

Its not like Twitter has ever done this. Never!

Oh wait.

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u/Caldaga May 15 '22

This is how the whole business world works. It's all one manager after another reporting results with contexts to at least imply success regardless of what actually happened. Because they want to keep their jobs.

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u/thoughts-to-forget May 15 '22

AND it still took them 100 different attempts with different groups to get the 5% they were looking for.

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u/sgr28 May 15 '22

That is the definition of p-hacking haha

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22 Take My Energy

Just remember one thing: this Elon's version of events. He is a noted and notorious liar.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22 edited May 28 '22

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u/jbcraigs May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

.. taking 100 as a sample size for measuring bots on twitter

Elon is bullshitting. As his subsequent tweet said, they use bots to check with sample size of 100. So the bots do repeated sampling of 100 each, NOT 100 total. This seems completely fine for statistical analysis.

He is just trying to drive down the price so that he can buy Twitter for lower valuation OR/AND Tesla stock falling is making it impossible for him to finance the deal.

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u/GuySmith May 15 '22

Wtf Elon would NEEEEEEEVER use Twitter to manipulate any sector of any market!

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u/1wigwam1 May 15 '22

He’s using Twitter to manipulate Twitter.

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u/Gustomucho May 15 '22

Twitter should ban him, oh no, they cannot because they need drama to unfold on their platform to be relevant!

Let's see how much whoring Twitter will take.

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u/tehfly May 15 '22

He is just trying to drive down the price so that he can buy Twitter for lower valuation OR/AND Tesla stock falling is making it impossible for home to finance the deal.

I honestly wouldn't put it past Musk to not be planning to buy Twitter at all. He's been using Twitter to manipulate stocks for years now and I don't think this is any different. Whenever he says something about Twitter - any given stock that he's involved in is affected. Sounds to me he's just testing how far down he can drive something (probably in order to buy it back up at its lowest).

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u/KamiYama777 May 15 '22

He is already locked in the deal at $44 billion, he can only renegotiate by dropping out of the deal and trying again which would be costly and legally risky as well

He is probably just going to back out at this point

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u/Flaky-Illustrator-52 May 15 '22

Ah, lots of samples of 100. This makes much more sense now

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u/Epistaxis May 15 '22

He is just trying to drive down the price so that he can buy Twitter for lower valuation

He already reached a deal on the price, $44 billion. If this is about rejiggering that agreement (which incidentally doesn't contain any mechanism to put itself "temporarily on hold"), maybe it's about trying to wriggle out of the $1 billion penalty he agreed to pay if he backs out.

OR/AND Tesla stock falling is making it impossible for him to finance the deal

Tesla and the whole stock market, plus he hadn't actually found all the funding he needed before all that started anyway.

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u/pablank May 15 '22

I think you hit the nail on the head...

People are always saying: what is 1bn to him, thats pocket money. No, it certainly isnt. Its still 0.5% of his entire net worth. And its to be paid with money, not some of his asset. So he probably would have to liquidate something in the worst time to do so. Real estate would be easy right now but I remember him saying he doesnt want to own any, anymore?

So even for him, 1bn is probably not something you just spend without a second thought in this market... imagine how much he could make investing that right now

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u/elkomanderJOZZI May 15 '22

Ahhh yes I remember his “Selling all my property but not go through with it” stint. Also when do we get those LA tunnels he also mentioned

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u/sleepingwiththefishs May 15 '22

Why isn’t every time this shit head opens his beak he isn’t hit with charges from the SEC, he is clearly manipulating stock prices and the market in general with his constant misinformation and just outright bullshit?

The guy is a walking toxin and the sooner the planet figures it out the better. The idea of Elon king of the trolls running twitter is deeply depressing.

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u/perthguppy May 15 '22

Cause this time the institutions SEC protects - aka the banks - signed onto elons deal and got themselves all tied up into it so now it’s a big complicated mess

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u/ChrRome May 15 '22

It's also possible he could be lying that Twitter uses 100 sample, but him claiming it as a fact is still an NDA breach.

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u/Apprehensive-Ad8987 May 15 '22

100 accounts is just bullshit.

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u/Zepanda66 May 15 '22

This deal is gonna fall through isn't it?

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22 edited May 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/yobymmij2 May 15 '22

I’ve never sensed that Musk is particularly big on rules and regulations.

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u/Vincesteeples May 15 '22

It’s almost as if he’s never had to face any kind of consequences for anything ever

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u/fred13snow May 15 '22

He has never faced any impactful* consequences. Just like every other uber rich person or company. Fines are laughably low and mesures can often be skirted away with a little bit of creativity.

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u/Particular_Bobcat May 15 '22

"pedo is a common insult in Africa" fucking ass hole.

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u/Potatopolis May 15 '22

Elon finding not very creative ways to creatively back out of a deal after affecting the stock price hugely? No!

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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 May 15 '22 Silver

He can't shut up for five minutes, of course he violated an NDA.

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u/Grimlokh May 15 '22

He absolutely can!

He won't but he can

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u/t3hd0n May 15 '22

yup, see all the bullshit he does but keeps pretty fucking quiet about

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/StarksPond May 15 '22

Been really silent on getting his shit kicked in by Amber Heard.

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u/schmeckmaster2000 May 15 '22

I'd love to see a ban on all "Elon Musk says..." stories for 3 months.

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u/neoKushan May 15 '22

I'd love to see a ban on Elon Musk.

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u/Infernalism May 15 '22 Wholesome

I'm really astounded that we're not talking more about Musk's blatant stock manipulation. Most recently, the Twitter shit he's been doing to drive the price up and down.

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u/Separate-Owl369 May 15 '22

No consequences for the extremely wealthy.

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u/once_again_asking May 15 '22

That’s right. White collar crimes and the criminal code of the United States are more like guidelines than an actual code. Drink up me hearties yo ho.

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u/TheAnalogKoala May 15 '22

We are in a Golden age of fraud. Rigged charities, stock manipulation, crypto scams…. and no consequences.

This will not end well.

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u/LiberalFartsMajor May 15 '22

I don't know about that, I'd consider a revolution a good outcome.

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u/WayeeCool May 15 '22

Would have to be on the 1917 revolution scale, otherwise it will just be business as usual where the ungrateful uncivil masses get violently put down then everyone is told to "go vote harder" or something....

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u/Stepjamm May 15 '22

Any protest beyond standing peacefully with signs is regarded as a nuisance at best and ‘violent looting mobs’ at worst.

If only we were as coordinated as rail workers or the french at striking, we’d probably stand a chance

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u/TheDesktopNinja May 15 '22

Unfortunately, those in power have done their best to segregate and divide the people over the last few decades. There's virtually no issue that you can get a large enough number of people on board with a real meaningful revolution. Society is fractured at a fundamental level and I'm not sure how that gets mended.

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u/abutthole May 15 '22

Ah, famously revolutions always work out as planned and nothing ever gets worse after most of them.

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u/cubanpajamas May 15 '22

Soooo you are saying the US, France and aren't better off?!

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u/m4fox90 May 15 '22

The history of the French Revolution and that country in the 1800s is a little more complicated than just “the revolution worked out”

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

You wouldn't download a social media platform

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u/anchoviesontoast May 15 '22

You wouldn't take a dump in the social media platform, then return it to its grieving stockholders!

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u/civilitarygaming May 15 '22

Laws with punishing penalties for thee and guidelines for me.

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u/crockett5 May 15 '22

It’s the effect of having AGs/DAs who worry more about conviction rates than serving justice. They will always convict the poor that can’t properly defend themselves rather than go after the rich that have armies of lawyers.

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u/BackmarkerLife May 15 '22

Drink up me hearties yo ho.

Feed Elon LSD and Shrooms and bind him to the prow of the ship! We'll see if his Neo-libertarian gods can save him!

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u/plague042 May 15 '22

When the consequences are fines, it's legal for the richs.

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u/SparkyDogPants May 15 '22

Martha Stewart literally went to prison for insider trading. Let Elon do some prison arts and crafts

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u/Mulielo May 15 '22

What?!? He's not a woman or a minority, we don't need to enforce the rules on him in America.

/s

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u/engineertee May 15 '22

Yeah his buddy said it out loud before, ”when you’re a star, they let you do anything”

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u/Separate-Owl369 May 15 '22

Yes, he did.

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u/trick_or_tricky May 15 '22

Which is really a shame, since they're the ones who most deserve some consequences.

The rich are so, so tasty.

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u/hunterseeker1 May 15 '22

Justice = just us

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u/snackies May 15 '22

Yeppp... there was a solid wapo article (I'm not usually a huge fan) that detailed basically how he made 220m or so by delaying the filing of some sales forms.

Basically if I recall correctly... he was dumping his Twitter stock before he announced he was buying Twitter. But he basically said 'oh well I put in the sell order before I announced it.'

But he delayed signing the final forms for the sale until Twitter pumped up.

And I'd bet my fucking life that he's snatching it up after it's tanked.

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u/supluplup12 May 15 '22

Also offloading Tesla stocks as collateral for a ridiculous vanity purchase dropped the value of Tesla stocks. So if he dicks around and the deal falls through he can put all the money back into Tesla stocks and his shares have now increased by the % drop the stocks took, all without having to actually spend money buying them. His ability to play the part of the impulsive narcissist is now an alibi for the SEC probe.

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u/snackies May 15 '22

Well in fairness I believe he just took a loan BACKED by his like 20b in tesla stock.

But yeah it would have been predictable to say... largest tesla shareholder takes a loan against like a quarter of the company... if I was a stockholder I'd be pissed.

But it's also possible Musk isn't actually that smart at all... because he's in a VERY weird spot where the loans he took backed by his tesla stock look VERY sketchy because his 20b stock is now worth a bit less than 10.

And he's still fundraising to try to make the purchase of an asset that has now tanked in value.

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u/Barlight May 15 '22

SEC should do something...They wont...

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22 edited May 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/gerdataro May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

He settled with the SEC for $20M for his 2018 tweets, but that’s like .0086% of his total wealth (so “aka nothing” is still right).

Hard to imagine me getting off on those same charges for the price of a Big Mac meal, if things were proportional…

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u/yolotrolo123 May 15 '22

Honestly fines need to scale with wealth

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u/Angry-Dragon-1331 May 15 '22

Scandinavian countries that do this have the right idea.

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u/DickDestroyer9001 May 15 '22

We don't do it here in Sweden, so since you say countries I assume both Denmark and Norway does it

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u/Angry-Dragon-1331 May 15 '22

Believe so? It might also be Finland (which isn’t Scandinavia of course, but is Scandinavia adjacent).

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u/DickDestroyer9001 May 15 '22

Yeah Finland most likely does too since even speeding tickets is based on your income (not wealth though), but as you say they're not Scandinavian.

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u/LAuke08 May 15 '22

what motive would he have to manipulate twitter’s stock price? he’s already put the offer of $54.20 wouldnt that mean it literally doesn’t matter to him if it goes up or down in valuation

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u/portraitopynchon May 15 '22

And it's not the first time either.

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u/Infernalism May 15 '22

No, he has an established history of tanking Tesla stock deliberately and then backtracking to bring the price back up.

It's blatant as fuck but no one seems to care.

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u/epukinsk May 15 '22

I'm really astounded that we're not talking more about Musk's blatant stock manipulation

What do you mean "not talking more"? That subject is brought up in literally every Elon Musk Twitter thread.

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u/slippybear May 15 '22

Yea, we do talk about it. It's more a question of, is anyone going to ever do anything about it?

I don't think it's just purely wealth (although that goes a long way), it's fame too. Just look at Teflon Don.

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u/FloodMoose May 15 '22

He did the same thing with crypto. He's a fucking asshole, but the rules so not apply because he's a rich asshole.

Taters. Cook em mash em boil em inna stew.

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u/CommitteeOfTheHole May 15 '22

The SEC is said to be currently investigating. I really hope they come down hard on him this time

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u/cigarmanpa May 15 '22

The football conference would probably do more than the government agency if we’re being honest.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Lol conservatives are basically licking his balls lately. He knows he owns one half of the government and thus practically owns it all. He will get away with just about anything

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u/EchoRex May 15 '22

It'll be hard to prove motive with Elon having a history of just fire hosing out random Twitter shit that causes other people to pump or dump stocks unless he has a bunch of trades that coincide with peaks / valleys.

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u/_baundiesel_ May 15 '22

He's going to weasel out of the deal and blame everyone else.

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u/trojanattorney1 May 15 '22

that's not how it works - the 1billion fee everyone cites is only the fee either party would have to pay if they initiate, and the other party accepts them walking away.

i.e., legally twitter can still force Elon to buy the company at $54.20 as long as they can prove that he has the financing available to complete the acquisition. Elon could only get out of this (and the $1B) if twitter is found to have lied in a way that MATERIALLY affects their valuation/future profitably expectations. in a court room, materially is usually something starting around 25%+, not something minor like 1-2% misstatement (fraudulent or otherwise) of top/bottom line numbers or some other key metric.

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u/NathanielHudson May 15 '22

MATERIALLY affects their valuation/future profitably expectations

For reference, Delaware, in all of it's many years of M&A rulings, has only seen this happen once. And in that case, the revelation was that the company being acquired was essentially lying to the FDA and also didn't have good records of most everything and also EPS was declining at 100-300% per quarter. Musk's "There are somewhat more bots than anticipated" won't cut it, especially given Musk waived due diligence and the Twitter bot numbers always came with a disclaimer that they were a rough estimate.

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u/MaceIsThePIace May 15 '22

Which would include if their bot count makes for a larger portion of the user base than is what is reported.

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u/Euler007 May 15 '22

You mean the thing that Elon said he would fix when he buys Twitter? Or the bots he uses to pump? Yeah that was a big surprise for him

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

All that matters is what Twitter internally disclosed to Musk, and what the agreement says is material and allows Musk to avoid closing the deal on time.

That's it. Musk is required to close the deal by a certain date, if he doesn't he owes Twitter $1B, except in specific scenarios detailed in the sale agreement.

This link (https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/inside-the-merger-agreement-between-6858160/) has a great concise list of what the agreement specifies are "Material Adverse Events" that allow Musk to back out of the deal.

Here is the recap:

The Merger Agreement contains nine such MAE carveouts: (i) changes to the industry, (ii) changes to any law or to GAAP, (iii) general economic, regulatory or political conditions, or in the financial, credit or securities markets, in the U.S. or anywhere in the world, (iv) any act of God, force majeure, terrorism, cyberattack, war, etc., (v) any epidemic pandemic (including COVID-19), any measures in reaction thereto, or any political or civil unrest, (vi) the negotiation, execution, announcement or consummation of the Merger Agreement, including the identity of Elon Musk or his financing sources, (vii) any action taken pursuant to the Merger Agreement or will the consent of Musk or his affiliates, (viii) changes in Twitter’s stock price or trading volume, failure to meet analyst estimates or credit rating changes (unless thing giving rise to the foregoing is itself a MAE not otherwise excluded), and (ix) anything previously disclosed in an SEC filing.

That last one protects Twitter from Musk claiming that anything previously disclosed in an SEC filing is a MAE.

All Twitter has to do is prove that something Musk wants to use as means to get out of his contract was already disclosed to the SEC in a filing.

You can bet that anything that Twitter filed to the SEC was factually accurate, and well supported. I.e. Twitter's claim was not that a specific percentage of bots were fake/etc. What they actually claimed is that did a random sampling, the random sampling showed 5%, and so that's the basis of their projections. As long as that's actually true Musk is screwed.

The reality is that if Musk doesn't close on time, it will take months, or years, or maybe a decade for the litigation to proceed. Musk doesn't have a great track record with compliance, and Twitter has a robust and strong position if Musk fails to close.

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u/AshyWings May 15 '22

Won't work. Even if there are way more bots, it doesn't materially affect the earnings they've been reporting.

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u/steadyboost May 15 '22

Advertising to bots is as weird business model.

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u/ReshKayden May 15 '22

You joke, but the vast majority of digital advertising traffic and revenue is bots advertising to other bots. There is an preposterous amount of fraud in digital advertising.

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u/mclumber1 May 15 '22

It's a house of cards!

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u/facepalm_the_world May 15 '22

If I can trick a bot into buying something from me, I will die rich

This has nothing to do with this thread lol

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u/steadyboost May 15 '22

Yes it does. Real users can be advertised to, which is Twitter’s primary income. I don’t think business owners want to pay to advertise to bots/click farms/scammers. There is a direct correlation to real vs fake accounts and Twitter’s value.

Edit: also unclear if you post was aimed at my previous or if you’re just a good ole silly goose. Either way, cheers

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u/facepalm_the_world May 15 '22

I was in a silly goofy mood, but you're right. I used to do internet marketing, and if it's really majority bots, I want my money back :( Though, I doubt I'm ever going to see any of it. It's been years since I've bought ad space.

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u/steadyboost May 15 '22

Silly gooses are okay with me!

Sorry for your experience. It’s not just twitter either, but other social media platforms, too.

Chinese click farms are a problem. There are a lot of them.

https://youtu.be/YZhlU2_YsPE

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u/NotAnotherEmpire May 15 '22

It's only material if it is significantly different from their public filing, and in a way they should have known about with how they are operating their business. As a public company, lies in the disclosure filings are a big deal.

If it's a hard question to answer or the number is based on how they have always internally counted, that's not good enough.

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u/nuge08 May 15 '22

Sounds like he's just making an excuse to back out of the deal.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

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u/GravitasIsOverrated May 15 '22

That's not how merger law works. Elon doesn't have a one-sided exit clause in the contract. Twitter can drag him though the sale kicking and screaming if they want - and given they represent the shareholders, that would be what I expect them to do.

Also the board isn't going to sign a second contract with him even if he somehow magically blows the first one up.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

The sale agreement specifically blocks him from seeking a better price, or a changed deal, as a result of anything that happens because he is buying the company, or because of something he said.

This is just window dressing to try to stall a stock decline.

Tesla stock rebounded somewhat after it looks like the deal was going to fail. The market thinks the deal won't happen. This is basically the market agreeing that Musk made a big mistake.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

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u/noghead May 15 '22

This is probably right. The entire market is tanking right now, if it weren't for this deal, twitter would probably be trading in the mid to high 20's right now.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

^^ This is exactly right. This is so simple:

Musk can't afford to buy Twitter. He can only leverage 20% of his Tesla stock, so the lower the stock goes, the more he has to sell to bring the cash he needs to finance the deal. As his remaining shares decrease, the ratio of leverage approaches 20%.

Depending on the exact composition of who is brining money to the table, there is a point where Musk can't borrow anymore against his remaining shares, and his subject to a margin call.

Remember, the deal is structure like this:

  • Musk to bring $X billions in cash (I think it's $20B)
  • Musk to arrange $X billions in bank financing secured by Twitters assets (I think this is like $12B)
  • Musk to arrange $X billions in bank financing secured by his Tesla shares (I think this is the remainder, like $12B ish).

For Musk to get the $20B ish in cash he needs to close the deal, he has to sell a lot of Tesla stock. If that drives the price too low he could exceed the leverage ratio, and that would mean that Musk would be unable to borrow against his remaining Tesla shares.

At that point, he would have to get the gap from somewhere else, and that would be either his other assets, or other cash, or other investors.

It is not inconceivable, that depending on how far he Tesla stock sinks with this market correction that Musk could end up having a personal bankruptcy where he has to restructure his debts - if that were too happen, a Court could take control of his Tesla holdings to pay creditors, and that would supersede his covenants as Chairman of the Board.

With Tesla at $1000, Musk had enough liquidity to finance this deal. He also certainly does at $750; but no one publicly knows and can calculate the exact price at which Musk faces a liquidity and financing crisis.

The final piece of the puzzle is what happens when he owns the company. With his present financing deal, he will be paying $1B a year to service the debt. Twitters revenue was $4.5B in 2021, but it's gross loss was $221 million, meaning, Musk, immediately, would have to cut $1.22B in expenses, or increase profitability by $1.22B, in order to just cover his debt service. Even aggressively cutting staff and overhead, and reducing R&D and investment wouldn't generate that type of immediate savings, meaning, simply, that he'd have to continue to fund Twitter's debt-service from his own pocket, again, setting up a liquidity crisis.

There is every likely hood that Musk has bitten off more than he can afford and is seeking to give himself cover to back out, and prolong the litigation so he can quietly settle down the road a bit, or hope that Twitter gets bored and moves on.

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u/ksdanj May 15 '22

Rules are for the common people.

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u/chaseinger May 15 '22

rules are for those who don't make them.

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u/bsylent May 15 '22

He's tying so hard for this deal to get canceled. In typical Musk fashion, buying it was just a whimsical, bullshit thing in a series of his "I'm a 12 years old edgelord tweeting from a basement" bullshit things

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u/Dthirds3 May 15 '22

So he's trying to tank the deal becaue the Sec is investigating him and Tesla stock is droping like a rock so he can't acculmiate the money needed for the deal.

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u/SunshineInDetroit May 15 '22

nk the deal becaue the Sec is investigating him and Tesla stock is droping like a rock so he can't acculmiate the money needed for the deal.

or "he had his money tied up in investments"

like crypto

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u/peterb666 May 15 '22

I find Musk quite an enigma. I also find the comparison between Musk and Gates amusing.

https://fortune.com/2022/05/05/bill-gates-elon-musk-tesla-short-climate-change/

I met Bill Gates at a Microsoft event in Sydney in the 1990s. I found him like an ordinary person. Anyone could come up to him and chat to him. He didn't flaunt his wealth or power. He could have been your neighbour.

I have never met Musk and I am not likely to do so either. I get the feeling, even though he is clever, he is a somewhat a prat.

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u/Expert_Flatworm_2548 May 15 '22

Difference between gates and musk is that gates actually built something. Sure he didnt invent the PC but he made the OS the number one in the world for 4 decades now.

Musk hasnt made anything. He has ideas and pays smart people around him to create for him.

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u/Uvinjector May 15 '22

Difference between Gates and Musk is that Gates is apparently putting 5G chips into vaccines to control our brains so he is evil, Musk wants to hardwire our brains with neuralink for the betterment of hunanity and he is the savior of the free world and soon to be unabashedly worshipped emperor of Mars

Or something like that

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u/Znarl May 15 '22

Microsoft is built on the bodies of its competitors and did enormous damage to personal computers.

It can be argued that a lot of the effort put into making Linux successful was motivated by a common hate of Microsoft and their predatory behaviour.

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u/SkaBonez May 15 '22

Yeah, people have forgotten that Gates was seen as a monopolistic demon of a CEO and the senate went after him in an anti-trust case where he was ridiculed for his responses, including “I don’t know what you mean, ‘concerned’?” To which the attorney questioning him asked if he was familiar with the word in the English language and if it had meaning to him lol

It could be argued his public image’s defeat at that trial is what really brought about the Gates Foundation in order to fix it

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u/Znarl May 15 '22

"A US federal judge ordered the Microsoft Corporation to split into two companies today, prescribing the biggest corporate breakup since AT&T while harshly rebuking the global software giant for stifling computer-age competition."

From The Guardian, Microsoft got this over turned with an appeal but this happened under Gates.

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u/garlicroastedpotato May 15 '22

To be fair, Gates didn't really make anything either. He bought DOS from a guy who had absolutely no idea what to do with it. He was in a race to create Windows against Apple (and won the race). Both Apple and Microsoft swiped the modern PC software (click and point mouse with a keyboard, visual graphic icons) from the printer company Xerox... who had no idea what they had.

Most major tech companies don't invent much new stuff, they buy up a company that has invented new things and then improve the product that is being sold. In the case of Beats, Apple bought it to eliminate the main competitor for Air Pods.

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u/raygundan May 15 '22

Gates didn't really make anything either.

He’s a monopolistic twat, but him and Paul Allen wrote Altair and MS BASIC themselves, using an 8080 emulator for the PDP-10 that they also wrote themselves.

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u/CobakaBejet May 15 '22

Musk wasn’t exactly wrong with that assessment. X.com merged with Confinity and became PayPal, which currently has a market cap of $307 billion.

...

Musk is a co-founder of PayPal. According to Business Insider, Musk founded the searchable business directory Zip2 with his brother when Musk was 24. The brothers sold Zip2 for $307 million four years later. Musk used his $22 million profit from the sale to help start the online bank X.com.

Source: https://marketrealist.com/p/did-elon-musk-create-paypal/

Zip2 -> X -> (merge to Paypal) -> SpaceX, Tesla, Solarcity.

He has made many amazing business decisions, in addition to making products.

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u/RevolutionaryG240 May 15 '22

sorta. Zip2 and X.com are certainly successes so that's great for him. Paypal still doesn't have a bank charter, nobody wanted an online bank in 2000, and he's only a co-founder of PayPal in name due to the merger, he Paypal wasn't his idea and he got fired for having stupid ideas about PayPal.

SpaceX and Tesla are successes for him in his ownright. Supporters will give him too much credit though, most of his ideas at Tesla were terrible and he had to hire smart people to make Tesla a success, and haters will say he took over an already successful company and just took credit for everything. Make the right business decisions eventually is still success.

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u/CobakaBejet May 15 '22

But to say he has not made anything is also a disservice. He has indeed made products which then allowed the companies to be sold.

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u/zonchev May 15 '22

Yup. His name at this point is like a brand.

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u/Resident_Wizard May 15 '22

I feel like if Bill Gates didn’t invent the software he did, there’d be another Bill Gates in his place. Same goes for Musk, Tesla and EVs.

The difference is Musk could stand to be less of a twat. He definitely has done well for bringing attention and talent to the EV innovation. But he’s turned into an egotistical twat who’s always out to prove he’s the smartest man around when he doesn’t need to.

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u/whatproblems May 15 '22

yeah some os would have dominated eventually

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u/Nostonica May 15 '22

He sold dos to IBM before he owned dos then bought it afterwards.

His mum got him a meeting with the IBM board of directors. Now gates skill was cornering the market and been ruthless with his competitors and locking in customers.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

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u/Reddit123556 May 15 '22

This is a common misconception. Look up his first two companies. He clearly built things himself early in his career

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u/celestiaequestria May 15 '22

Musk is the son of slavers who bought his way into Silicon Valley. He's an egotistical elitist who thinks because he's a workaholic, he's worth all the money he's accumulated. speaking fees unless he's

Gates is a rich kid whose mom got IBM to buy from her son's garage company. He's said on numerous occasions that he was lucky to have had rich parents and the opportunities he had in life - he knows he's a statistical anomaly.

That total obliviousness to normal human emotion is what makes people like Musk and Zuckerberg so intolerable.

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u/ejaniszewski May 15 '22

What exactly has Musk ever done that is clever? I don’t think he’s had an original idea in his life. If his dad didn’t own jewel mines, we’d have never heard of him.

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u/cwspellowe May 15 '22

He flew over to Thailand with a fuel tank idea to rescue those boys trapped in a cave then called a rescue diver a paedo after his idea wasn’t used.

Does that count?

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u/TheMacMan May 15 '22

True. Funny how fanboys talk about his patents, as if he actually came up with them. Steve Jobs name is on patents too. It’s common for a large company to put their patents in the CEOs name. It’s not like he was actually in the lab, but some fanboys claim he actually was. 😂

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u/absentmindedjwc May 15 '22

Fuck.. I have my name on a bunch of patents... and I most definitely didn't do most of the work.. I just happened to be involved.

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u/yangyangR May 15 '22

A particular patent he has is on the configuration of charging stations. Not the technology about the charging, just the design. This is so that the charging stations have lock-in with Tesla. So you can't use some future electric car that has a different configuration with the Tesla power station. This is blatantly an attempt at monopolization. If there was cross compatibility with the charging, then the best car would win instead of the one that had bought up the most stations for ease of use.

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u/cinderful May 15 '22

Don’t buy into Bill’s harmless nice guy image. He had plenty of rage screams at his teams. I know someone who witnesses it firsthand. He is an asshole.

But agreed that he’s no Musk.

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u/DCGreatDane May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

So Tesla lost share price and he’s panicking. His excuses now are there more bots or their lawyers said I violated the NDA. He will try not to pay that $1 billion fee. The SEC will investigate with market manipulation and he will get a slap on the wrist. If a poor con man did this he would be sued, if a billionaire does its a fine.

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u/kevin5lynn May 15 '22

If Apple can thrive without Steve Jobs, Tesla can thrive without Elon Musk. What a shit show.

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u/bagorilla May 15 '22

He also said we’d have self-driving cars years ago.

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u/Stayvfraw May 15 '22

Twitter’s stock, especially as part of the SP500, is part of many retirement and non-speculative brokerage accounts.

It’s a widely traded stock and many individuals are dependent on its value, and some, like options traders, make or lose money based on the timing of its price movements. (Let alone the many workers of twitter, whose compensation may include the company’s stock.)

So It’s pretty outrageous that someone is just allowed to send the stock’s price skyrocketing up on the hopes of being purchased and then careening down when they undercut the deal that THEY initiated and pumped.

So If he doesn’t go through with this deal, I hope Twitter sues him for a hearty amount and the SEC fines and sanctions him as well.

Otherwise, what’s the point of market manipulation laws? How can any trader make sound judgements on the value of any given equity if this is allowed?

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u/martinu271 May 15 '22

Moral of the story? Don't gamble your money away on options.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Moral of the story is that Elon musk is a fucking piece of shit with with a big mouth and no ethics.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Elon Musk can’t keep his mouth shut?

No way!!!! I don’t believe this!

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u/yolotrolo123 May 15 '22

He’s just coming up with random excuses

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u/DryTheWets May 15 '22

Consequences? Nope.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

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u/cegr76 May 15 '22

Entitled Man Did What He Wanted

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u/SigourneyWeinerLover May 15 '22

How many more times do you have to see billionaires do illegal shit before you realize they are immune to laws because the police protect the bourgeoisie while harassing the proletariat, the judges are paid for, the laws are tailor made, hand-written by mega rich people and corporations I mean come on man this not fucking democracy it's a playhouse monopoly game and everyone else is getting fucked

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u/PirateKelvin May 15 '22

Looking for excuses not to go forward with the mistake and challengers he was going to bring against Tesla by unbanning Trump lol

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u/bd_rom May 15 '22

Guys, I’m beginning to think wealthy South Africans aren’t a trustworthy bunch…..

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u/defaultgameer1 May 15 '22 Helpful

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

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u/Mirrormn May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

I'm gonna be honest: unless Twitter sues him for violating an NDA for this particular utterance, I'm going to assume he's straight up lying.

It's so convenient for him to invent this problem, pick a sample size that makes him look stupid, blame his stupidity on Twitter, and then say "Oh wait that was info I wasn't supposed to disclose, that's why no one else knew about it!"

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u/Ok-Cartographer-3725 May 15 '22

Maybe he knows he can't really afford it, so he's making something up so he can get out of it....

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u/Veggiedelite90 May 15 '22

This guy 100% doesn’t want to buy Twitter lol

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u/dagbiker May 15 '22

He never intended to buy twitter he just wanted to wave his ePeen around. Hes trying his hardest to get out of it and Twitter is calling his bluff.

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u/Hot-Ad1100 May 15 '22

so the deal is off now!

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u/JohnBrownsHolyGhost May 15 '22

Because he was manipulating the price of stock with news of his purchase intention and price.

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u/Love_To_Burn_Fiji May 15 '22

Could we please not post Musk related crap in here everyday?

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u/Smokey8595 May 15 '22

He has also violated my give-a-fucks reserve

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u/erics75218 May 15 '22

Dudes just exposing how bullshit user count numbers are...just like exposing how bullshit most crypto projects are.

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u/FeedMeCletus May 15 '22

When will people realize he’s just another con man?

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u/Chokedee-bp May 15 '22

Elons been a market manipulator for years. Until the young kids with no real life experience stop worshipping him it won’t change

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u/jor3lofkrypton May 15 '22

Imagine Alien Musk ponies up the $ 1 bil. cancel fee in the renege of Twitter purchase, only to find out later it was nothing but a crypto currency short sell scheme? Win-win?

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u/Live-Pomegranate9867 May 15 '22

This guy is such a fucking grifter

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u/littleMAS May 15 '22

Jeff Bezos must be happy that Elon is catching all the flack. Jeff has fallen off the radar.

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u/SuperTricolor May 15 '22

I’m willing to bet he won’t buy it. He just wanted to manipulate the market. He never intended to buy it

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u/cruizer93 May 15 '22

… would disclosing that the team told you you violated the nda be an nda violation?

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u/BiBoFieTo May 15 '22

NDAs are for controlling poor people, not Elon

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u/iamthefluffyyeti May 15 '22

Good put him in jail or something

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u/MadameWesker May 15 '22

I totally was gonna do it guys but those guys said that I did a thing and now i can't. Aw shucks, maybe next time.