Netflix to Employees: If You Don’t Like Our Content, You Can Quit

[u/OptimalConcept]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/netflix-to-employees-if-you-dont-like-our-content-you-can-quit-11652478092

[u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm]

A lot cheaper for Netflix if they do. They’ll save millions in severance.

[u/mudkipzftw → u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm]

That’s what I thought as well. No high growth company encourages its staff to leave. They know layoffs are coming and are preparing.

[u/OptimalConcept → u/mudkipzftw]

If you need to reduce staffing levels, though, this is a bad way to do it. Ideally in layoffs you want to start by shedding low performers. Antagonizing your employees does the opposite: your high performers, who are the ones who typically have plenty of other options, are the ones that are going to start leaving first.

[u/reshef → u/OptimalConcept]

Netflix is pretty infamous for not having low performers. Netflix has historically been willing to pay a huge premium, and fire people mere months or even weeks into a new job if it’s clear they’re not up to it. Even Amazon tends to not ball that hard with respect to firing.

Edit: to be clear I meant the salaried engineering side of Amazon, like AWS. I imagine any given hourly worker anywhere could get fired within minutes of arriving their first day.

[u/BbxTx → u/reshef]

I read an article about the work culture at Netflix. They will basically “vote” you out if you are low performer. You have to work hard or your peers will get rid of you.

[u/pissdrunkasshole → u/[deleted]]

Stack ranking and school yard bullying combined into one corporate hell hole that is entering its decline. Weeeee! Sign me up.

[u/RigusOctavian → u/pissdrunkasshole]

Survivor: Cubical

[u/AeternusDoleo → u/RigusOctavian]

Streaming Royale.

[u/Violet_Club → u/RigusOctavian]

Where when you lose, you win!

[u/CelestialStork → u/pissdrunkasshole]

Lol Netflix should make an anime about itself.

[u/Halidcaliber12 → u/CelestialStork]

It did, but apparently it didn’t make the cut. Too low performing, had to let it go.

[u/CaseyG → u/Halidcaliber12]

Not enough employees quit over it.

[u/CriticalScion → u/Halidcaliber12]

Season 2 documents the struggles of the first season's crew and eventual firing. They're now hiring the team for Season 3!

[u/nebbyb → u/CelestialStork]

It was called Squid Game.

[u/littlelosthorse → u/CelestialStork]

And cancel it after one season

[u/yaipu → u/littlelosthorse]

After a cliffhanger finale

[u/AlpacaM4n → u/CelestialStork]

They would do a live action reimagining of the anime about itself, filmed with a thrift store camcorder in Mexico

[u/regeya → u/AlpacaM4n]

And then if it performs well, cancel it.

[u/MmmDarkMeat → u/pissdrunkasshole]

Netflix also encourages your team members to cut you off to ask questions when giving presentations.

[u/potatodrinker → u/MmmDarkMeat]

Does it work upwards to senior managements? "Hold up Steve. What do you mean by holistic synergy exactly? Can you rephase that in simple terms, not bullshit corporate speak?" nervous chuckles from everyone else

Fun fact: Amazon discourages decks and presentations. Your contribution is part of a word doc that's usually 1 or 6 pages. Everyone spends 15min reading it at the meeting, then discuss. Not a bad setup

[u/Experiment_93711b → u/potatodrinker]

"Holistic synergy means that our organisation works together instead of everyone fucking shit up for each other or doing basically useless things, like this meeting about holistic synergi. Now, shut the fuck up Dave."

[u/Kiso5639 → u/potatodrinker]

Also, Steve, what is this imaginary flywheel you keep blowing up everyone's ass? Nobody understands that metaphor. That metaphor is really stupid. You suck, Steve.

[u/babybananahammock → u/MmmDarkMeat]

Every company I’ve ever worked for has done the same. Presentations are meant to be discussions, not lectures.

[u/geeky_username → u/babybananahammock]

Except "that's answered on the next slide if you'd stop interrupting..."

[u/pissdrunkasshole → u/MmmDarkMeat]

I bet that’s fun.

[u/Justame13 → u/pissdrunkasshole]

I work in government with senior leaders that do this.

Once you get used to it it isn't bad because they will ask questions at the relevant time when you are on the material and thinking about it. Then they will discuss among themselves the rest of the topic until its done. Then move onto the next.

The alternative is to wait until the end and have to flip back to the relevant part and remember what you are talking about which I find harder.

[u/NoCardio_ → u/pissdrunkasshole]

I love it, and I encourage people to do it when I give presentations. I hate presenting, but I am much more comfortable answering questions the entire time.

[u/Rion23 → u/pissdrunkasshole]

"Welcome, to the Blunderzone!"

Inflatable weapons drop from roof

"Mandatory after work drinks for the winner, mandatory after work drinks for the losers."

[u/IWantTheLastSlice → u/[deleted]]

It seems like many well known organizations where people want to work, in fact,suck to work for. I was employed at one ‘famous’ place and it ended up actually being less than optimal with a large number of entitled colleagues and culture that made things difficult. Stayed a few years and then bailed. Looks good on the resume though.

[u/cgn-38 → u/IWantTheLastSlice]

Oddly every time a company has the "eat the weak" mentality in management.

Universally the place is managed horribly.

[u/AAAscreenname → u/cgn-38]

That was the philosophy of the guy who took over Sears. Remember Sears?

[u/Missus_Missiles → u/cgn-38]

If I understand correctly, Amazon has a mandated 10% attrition. Which is fine theoretically. Run out the low performers. But, ignores politics of people playing favorites. And losing the best, and constantly rehiring.

Doesn't feel like something to be sustained.

[u/benchcoat → u/Missus_Missiles]

every place i’ve been at with a “cull the bottom X% of the team yearly” policy has been a nightmare—it’s impossible to build a stable high functioning team*—and eventually creates a culture of backstabbing, undermining, and credit grubbing because it incentivizes against collaboration

*you end up doing dumb ass things like hiring people on just to be the sacrificial lamb for the stack rank

edit:

also you never ever ever see this applied to the C-suite or Senior Leadership Teams—if every team is supposed to PIP/bottom rank X of their team each year, why don’t we see this with any management?

[u/Honest-Mess-812 → u/IWantTheLastSlice]

Absolutely i mean it looks good on your LinkedIn profile or resume but from my own personal experience, many of these Fortune 100 companies are terrible places to work.

[u/The_Count_Von_Count → u/Honest-Mess-812]

You ever notice that it’s always the places that look good on your resume that are fucking horrible to work for? Wish more people would question why that is.

[u/Hard_Corsair → u/IWantTheLastSlice]

well known organizations where people want to work, in fact,suck to work for

Well yeah. The more people that want to work for you, the more turnover you can sustain.

[u/IronChefJesus → u/IWantTheLastSlice]

That's why FAANG companies are now just temporary employment while you look for something better, no different than a certification on your resume, spend a year, two at most there, and then move on.

[u/musical_shares → u/[deleted]]

There’s a real danger if you want to hire wolves that they could form a pack and take you down.

Best way to prevent that is to make them believe it’s the other wolves they need to watch out for, not the guy with the whip.

[u/sparkus_profundus → u/musical_shares]

This guy wears gift shop wolf t shirts.

[u/SolitaireyEgg → u/[deleted]]

So many of these big tech giants are fucking miserably places to work. I've turned down job offers at some of the big names because I got a peek into their corporate culture and was just like "nah."

I prefer to work at small/medium companies so I don't lose my humanity.

[u/daecrist → u/SolitaireyEgg]

I had an interview with what passed for a big tech company around here. Obsessed with “orange” as a way of life before they were bought out.

I went to shadow a guy who was doing the job I was interviewing for, and the dude was a broken husk of a man who clearly hated his continued existence.

He’d sigh every time a new task came up, and I could see some of his soul leaving his body with every sigh. And it wasn’t just him. Everyone around the guy had the same look, and whenever they looked at me it was either with pity or crazy eyes that said get out while you can.

I deliberately tanked the interview after that by asking increasingly ridiculous questions and having fun with the interview at their expense. Fun interview, but they couldn’t pay me enough to work there.

[u/BoldazLove → u/daecrist]

I went on an interview one time, when I walked into the lobby I saw a woman I used to work with. She gave me a hug and whispered in my ear " you don't want to work here".

[u/redheadartgirl → u/BoldazLove]

That woman deserves flowers for saving you from a hellish job. There is nothing worse than going all in at a new job only to find out the work is soul crushing and the company culture is trash.

[u/wizwizwiz916 → u/daecrist]

Sounds like me with my old job except it was in government with an anal micromanager as a boss.

[u/Visit_Oktoberfest → u/SolitaireyEgg]

which ones did you reject?

[u/UrsusRenata → u/BbxTx]

We tried that at my last startup / fast-growth company. Not quite so harsh, but peer-review and peer-ranked raises. Oh my God, that is the perfect way to absolutely destroy a company culture, and we naively did it out the gate! (Based on lots of books and reading about fostering productive talent in tech.., which I now know to be complete crap.) And culture is impossible to change without a major personnel purge, even after you change the “rules”.

[u/sylver_dragon → u/UrsusRenata]

This result really shouldn't surprise anyone. Of all places, Google studied group dynamics and what it takes to make a successful team. Their results placed "psychological safety" as the number one thing to create a high performing group. Cutthroat tactics may make for some short-term productivity, but they are absolutely toxic to longer term stability and functionality of a group.

[u/snigles → u/sylver_dragon]

It's almost as if there is some sort of hierarchy of needs that determines what a person will work towards.

[u/rooftopfilth → u/snigles]

This is my daily reminder that Maslow stole the idea for his hierarchy from the Blackfoot Indian tribe and made it all about individuals and self-actualization when the original “hierarchy” is community-minded. It ends with “leaving a legacy for future generations” instead of “I’ve become my highest self and fuck all y’all”

[u/snigles → u/rooftopfilth]

Today I learned! Can you point me to some reading on that? I've read Lame Deer and am very interested in learning more about the native philosophies.

[u/thattimeofyearagain → u/rooftopfilth]

I feel like the tribe hierarchy is based more on human nature. As much of an introvert I can be feeling like part of a team or having a sense of community makes me happy. On top of that it all adapts from the concept of family unit and the knowledge, respect, and feelings of safety that come from a parent or grandparent who has already experienced it. The biggest problem with today’s hierarchy systems is the person with the most experience and knowledge isn’t always the one leading the group. I feel experience also includes having empathy of having been on the lower end of said hierarchy. College and the school system takes away from this by rewarding graduates higher places in the hierarchy without the experience. I imagine this to be a large problem in the tech industry because a lot of really talented developers may not have the degree to put them in the positions they deserve.

[u/omgFWTbear → u/sylver_dragon]

psychological safety

I may absolutely suck, but two things I did for my team when managing (this was pre pandemic) - get as much telework as I could, by hook and then by crook (company average ~10%, my team by the time I left: >~95%), and

While I started with “it’s okay to politely disagree with me,” to “please disagree with me,” to “if it doesn’t actually require my approval (which is a handful of HR-ish functions and conversations with upper management), I’m fully removing myself from the discussion - you are the boss for X. If I can help you, task me.”

[u/enjolras1782 → u/UrsusRenata]

If your head is on the chopping block you have to play everyones fucked up little games to keep ones head above water.

So instead of a team working together you're a bunch of people trying to climb into a boat in freezing cold water

[u/DevolvingSpud → u/enjolras1782]

And Rose won’t give up any of her room for you, Jack.

[u/Tinkerballsack → u/UrsusRenata]

Tech companies need to look back at the greats and start doing what companies like Atari did to become great: offer free drugs.

[u/fre3k → u/Tinkerballsack]

So...are you starting any companies anytime soon?

[u/escobizzle → u/Tinkerballsack]

What kind of drugs did Atari offer? Sounds like it was a fun place to work 😭

[u/Tinkerballsack → u/escobizzle]

Mostly weed, I think.

[u/NahLoso → u/BbxTx]

Working at Netflix sounds like it could be a Netflix reality show.

"This week, nine of you are on the chopping block. In five days your co-workers will vote, and one of you will be unemployed..."

[u/MountainDrew42 → u/NahLoso]

Day 5:

Lol just kidding you're all fired

[u/alivefromthedead → u/MountainDrew42]

canceled after the first season

[u/SuchSalad4 → u/alivefromthedead]

But is it cake?

[u/TheLongDarkNight4444 → u/BbxTx]

This is what they want people to think. In reality it much more of a popularity contest vs performance based system. I didn’t work for Netflix, but I spent 10 years working along side Netflix employees at a partner company. The culture is toxic. There is no trust amongst employees. There was a lot of time wasted talking about each other and the leadership. I was happy to move on and support other organizations.

[u/ABobby077 → u/TheLongDarkNight4444]

"They smile to your face, all the time they wanna take your place

​

oh, backstabbers"

​

seems pretty cutthroat

​

I've worked with people that lie and are primarily self promoters. There really is no "I" in team.

[u/Thac0 → u/BbxTx]

No wonder why they’re fucking up everything lately. In that environment folks will make terrible choices just to stay popular and keep their job.

[u/toxoplasmosix → u/BbxTx]

sounds like Lord of the Flies

[u/SnooMaps7887 → u/BbxTx]

Sounds like a good way to create a company full of employees that all think the same and are unable to innovate.

[u/tcorp123 → u/BbxTx]

So if everybody is working so hard, why are the content, suggestions, algorithms and hell, even the interface so shitty? Something’s not adding up.

[u/TryingToBeUnabrasive → u/tcorp123]

Having gone to a pretty elite university. I can tell you that after a certain threshold of success, elitists tend to spend more time jacking themselves off than actually doing elite things.

[u/Grumpy_Puppy → u/tcorp123]

why are the content, suggestions, algorithms and hell, even the interface so shitty?

Because the Netflix experience is tuned to push users towards revinue maximizing behaviors, not customer satisfaction.

[u/Drummer_23 → u/BbxTx]

Marc Randolph's answer in his AMA, to someone asking directly about the company's workplace culture and dynamic.

"Please don't think I"m being disrespectful with this answer, but if you are a high performer - you LOVE this kind of culture. If you are not a high performer, you do find it stressful and uncomfortable. This is part of the design.

"In the main post (above) I give the example of the well meaning leader starting to put in place guardrails to protect the company from poor judgement. But those guardrails are deeply frustrating to people who don't need those guardrails.

"One way to think about the Netflix experiment is that we wondered what would happen if we designed a company for the people with great judgement - who didn't need guardrails. Well the great news is that people with great judgement love it. What's the vacation policy? There is't one! What's the expense policy? There isn't one! What's the travel policy? There isn't one. The only netflix policy is four words long: Use Your Best Judgement.

"But to make that work - you can't have people who don't have that kind of judgement. And when you find that out, the only thing to do is to counsel them out of the company in a sensitive, compassionate, and generous-severance way.

"Obviously, there is much more to it than this. So I do encourage you to (do I really need to put the shameless plug warning in again?) either read my book on Netflix, or hear me coach entrepreneurs through it on the podcast.

"One last story: way before I started Netflix I worked at a big software company with a huge corporate campus. We had a cafeteria, olylmpic size swimming pool, squash courts, a gym . . .and a hot tub. Well one day walking home from lunch I stopped by to talk to a few our engineers who were lounging in the hot tub. And as I walked up, I heard they were bitching about the company. IN THE HOT TUB! It was funny, but it made me think: if it isn't hot tubs, and fireman poles and kambucha on tap that make someone want to work somewhere . . . what DOES make them want to work somewhere. Ultimately we decided the answer was respect: give someone the tools to do their job, surround them with peers they respect, make it clear what the companies objectives are . . . .and get out of the way."

Source. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/llye5n/im_marc_randolph_cofounder_and_first_ceo_of/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[u/sparkus_profundus → u/Drummer_23]

All of that, and they give us, “Is it cake?”

[u/Squid_Contestant_69 → u/Drummer_23]

This is literally the Hawaiian shirt day scene from Office Space.

Office culture isn't about giving people hot tubs or ping pong tables or Hawaiian shirt days, it's about having a culture where people may feel excited about having that option

[u/conspiracie → u/Drummer_23]

Funny, my idea of respect is more like a clear PTO policy that shows you respect my existence as a human.

[u/coffee_h → u/BbxTx]

thats a very shitty work env to be in. Imagine the toxicity if your coworkers can vote u out?

[u/Googunk → u/reshef]

fire people mere months or even weeks into a new job

So their employees get cancelled after 1 or 2 seasons, right when they are starting to get good? That would be infuriating if you liked the employee.

[u/Keudn883 → u/Googunk]

Its called the Vitality curve or more commonly known as rank and yank. It's a management process that was employed at GE in the 1980s when the company was bloated. The idea is that you rank employees and teams and the lowest ranked employees or teams are terminated. The idea really isn't terrible when you use it for a year or two to cut down your work force. The problem is companies like Microsoft for example deployed it and had it for years. What ends up happening is that your employees and teams don't fight to be top ranked. They fight to not be last. For Microsoft this led to a lot of infighting and sabotage among different teams. Some say its a major reason why Internet Explorer lost its market share because the team was paralyzed from keeping up with the competition. When Ballmer was replaced as CEO one of the first things the new CEO did was remove that program. A number of other major companies have also used this system.

[u/Overall-Duck-741 → u/Keudn883]

Work at Microsoft. The difference between the Nadella regime and the Ballmer regime is like night and day. Ballmer was a horrible CEO, Nadella is fucking great and he's made the company a shitload more money than Ballmer ever did.

[u/CalendarFactsPro → u/Keudn883]

Really interesting read, should make a TIL for this

[u/Keudn883 → u/CalendarFactsPro]

Pretty sure it's been posted before. A lot of companies have used it.

[u/joeyGibson → u/reshef]

I interviewed at Netflix a few years ago, and during the interview, they phrase, “or you could take a generous severance package” was used almost like punctuation. It was weird how they kept telling me all the ways I could leave the company I was interviewing with.

[u/Cuchullion → u/joeyGibson]

Basically saying "if you don't like it you can quit" during the interview is a pretty damning red flag, lol.

[u/trhrthrthyrthyrty → u/Cuchullion]

Not really. They're super up front about what their work culture is like and they compensate bad employee matches who voluntarily leave.

[u/photobeatsfilm → u/reshef]

Not having low performers at a company that size is impossible. I know plenty of halfwits that work at Netflix, and in general they’re known in the industry for over complicating and trying to reinvent things that don’t need reinventing.

They started out with a very well curated staff but at some point they had to start hiring second and third tier employees. They would just treat those employees like they were the best and empowered them to make their own decisions and have a startup mentality. Four years later look at where we’re at.

You can’t only hire the best when you’re hiring 500 people per week for years.

[u/ABigAmount → u/reshef]

This is accurate - some time ago a slide deck the CEO presented at a town hall leaked and the takeaway was that they only wanted A players. I recall the phrase "Average performance will generate a generous severance package". Forget about low performers, they don't even want average. They pay very well if you are a high performer.

I'd say it's impossible for a company of that size to be all A players though, so it's a bit hyperbolic.

[u/happyscrappy → u/reshef]

Netflix is pretty infamous for not having low performers

If I had $100 for every company I was told that about. Got a lot of friends who work at Google and constantly laugh how they tell you not to be intimidated by how smart everyone else around you is. Meanwhile 1/3rd of the programmers (as is usual) are terrible cargo cult programmers.

[u/fermentedbeats → u/OptimalConcept]

I doubt Netflix considers employees organizing walkouts and protesting content on the platform as their most valuable employees.

[u/Rashere → u/mudkipzftw]

It’s actually pretty common for big companies to ask people to leave, even pay them to, if they feel they aren’t a good fit for the culture or aren’t on board with the initiatives.

It’s cheaper to replace the head than the drag caused from managing a problematic employee.

[u/advice_animorph → u/mudkipzftw]

Classic example of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about being upvoted to the sky just because they sound knowledgeable. Companies shrink their workforce all the time while growing lol. That's why restructuring exists.

[u/daitenshe → u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm]

They’ll save millions in severance

Nah, pretty sure Severance is on Apple TV+

(For real, though, that show is very good)

[u/Revenge-of-asparagus → u/daitenshe]

(For real, though, that show is very good)

Please try to enjoy all shows equally.

[u/Denster1 → u/Revenge-of-asparagus]

You have been deducted 10 points.

You have 90 points remaining

[u/Vairman → u/daitenshe]

it is! it surprised how much I got into it because it starts off some uncomfortably calm and quiet. it's one of the few shows I think about when I'm not watching it.

[u/Soudie23 → u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm]

Companies aren’t required to pay severance. If they want to save money in severance they can just not give it

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Boe6Eod7Nty → u/[deleted]]

The article is from wall street journal. I tried to read it but they blocked me. Can't read more than the title without paying wsj

edit 8 days late: grammer

[u/etaco2 → u/Boe6Eod7Nty]

Without paywall: https://archive.ph/c9uzb

[u/Traveledfarwestward → u/etaco2]

This needs to become the default way to post to Reddit. Thank you, stranger.

[u/construction_newb → u/[deleted]]

I don't know why this would be controversial.

1. Netflix hate is popular in the news lately
2. Workers rights is a hot topic so an employer saying "like it or lump it" is good news to get workers rights people upset.

[u/MatureUsername69 → u/construction_newb]

They aren't really saying it that harshly though. The headline is.

[u/DiamondLyore → u/MatureUsername69]

Reddit only cares about the headline

[u/Seagull84 → u/construction_newb]

Which is backwards... Netflix has the best benefits in the industry and the minimum starting pay for the lowest level employees is $120k - I'm not kidding. Colleagues of mine equal level to me make $550k or more (around twice what I make).

Family forming benefits start at $75k, covering the cost of in vitro and paying another woman to bring your pregnancy to term. You get a year of parental leave similar to the rest of the developed world.

They literally pay you to have children. One friend took 9 months paternity.

Everyone wants to work there (including me, fuck yes I'll take 2-3x pay and the entire year of parental off for my upcoming kid, are you kidding me?)

It's cool to hate on the #1 player, but the reality is they're still #1, and news isnt going to change that anytime soon.

[u/IceColdBuuudLiteHere → u/Seagull84]

So much Netflix hate from antiwork edgelords when in reality they are one of the best companies on the planet to work for. Shit is wild lol.

[u/I_Bin_Painting → u/[deleted]]

Its like getting a job in a supermarket and demanding they stop selling meat because you’re vegetarian.

[u/iuse2bgood]

What content are they talking about here?

[u/trogdor1234 → u/iuse2bgood]

Dave Chapelle

[u/[deleted]]

They need to stop canceling good shows after 1-2 seasons.

[u/Icemna16 → u/[deleted]]

I don't even know how Bojack survived Netflix. If its first season was released today, it'd probably get cancelled because of Netflix's stupid decisions.

[u/Barneyk → u/Icemna16]

Because when Netflix started making their own content they focused on unique stuff that didn't get made elsewhere and by bringing back old fan favorites.

Over time as Netflix became dominant and as they had a very data driven approach to their company they concluded that their users actually didn't leave the service when their shows ended. What kept people around were new shows.

They noticed that a few major brands, like Stranger Things, is what drew people in and kept people talking about them.

And as shows goes on for more than a couple of seasons the people involved with the show start asking for more money.

Also, prestige content (like Roma) had very little to do with retaining or getting new users. It was just expensive.

Also, as more and more content was leaving their platform as deals ran out and others started their own services they needed more content.

This made them change their tactic and just splurge on new content with the idea of quantity over quality and only let their very most successful shows run longer than 2-3 seasons.

They even "bragged" about that in an investors call. Talking about how much cheaper it is to do it that way.

So they completely changed business tactics and now it is finally starting to catch up to them as their initial good will built up is running out and as they are facing some actual competition.

Old Netflix was all about shows like Bojack Horseman. New Netflix is not.

[u/I_am_telling_you → u/Barneyk]

The strange thing is that it is possible to make a compelling 1-2 season show. If Netflix wanted to go that route they could’ve demanded that every show they signed on had a complete arc that didn’t require more than 2 seasons. This way you wouldn’t upset so many users with unfinished series. There are plenty of examples of 1-season limited series on HBO that are outstanding. Netflix didn’t have to sacrifice quality in the name of quantity.

[u/mrglass8 → u/I_am_telling_you]

See: "The End of the F***ing World"

It didn't have a 3rd season because it didn't need one. We got a complete arc in 2 seasons

[u/lowrcase → u/mrglass8]

Fucking loved that show. It could’ve ended at the first season and I’d be happy with the storyline.

[u/ManiacalShen → u/I_am_telling_you]

Netflix does do great limited series, but it's pretty much all documentaries! Which I love! I don't even mind the silly shows that just don't last, like the leftover makeover one. If they could ply those skills toward fictional content...

[u/pompanoJ → u/Barneyk]

I think they also found that the studios producing content for them wanted to start their own streaming services and quit selling and licensing content.

Yeah, Marvel. I'm looking at you. Are we ever gonna find out what happens in the Daredevil universe?

[u/Raziel77 → u/pompanoJ]

Yeah the death of cable is causing that because in Netflix's golden period like 10 years ago those studios sold to netflix the streaming rights just to make a little extra money so it wasn't expensive but now the Streaming rights is the way to make money so Netflix can't afford them anymore.

[u/Barneyk → u/pompanoJ]

Marvel didn't stop licensing their content though. Netflix cancelled their "defenders universe" on their own. Marvel wanted to keep producing it for them but Netflix cancelled.

That is a special case though as Netflix would lose the rights to the shows soon anyway. So it is understandable that they didn't wanna keep paying for shows that they would lose the rights to so soon after.

Still sucks though. Daredevil and Jessica Jones were great. I really hope that Daredevil is coming back and that Jessica Jones start showing up in stuff.

[u/CapJackONeill → u/Barneyk]

Season 1 of Jessica Jones was fantastic. Season 2...

[u/edd6pi → u/CapJackONeill]

DD and JJ had this pattern where the first season is great, the second one is nowhere near as good, and the third one is really good but still not quite as the first one.

[u/FrustrationSensation → u/edd6pi]

Excuse you, the first half of DD season 2 is incredible

[u/SailorET → u/FrustrationSensation]

Punisher arc of S2 was incredible. Electra arc was meh.

[u/edd6pi → u/FrustrationSensation]

Fisk’s absence hurt the show for me. It just wasn’t the same without him.

[u/Hecticbuttering → u/FrustrationSensation]

Yeah everything Punisher was awesome in DDS2

[u/psimwork → u/FrustrationSensation]

Additionally, s3 is some of the best TV I have ever seen. S1 was good. S3 was FANTASTIC.

[u/Dynespark → u/edd6pi]

Bit the hallway fights get better every season.

[u/chanandlerbong420 → u/Barneyk]

Luke cage was good as fuck too. At least for as long as mahershala Ali was in it.

Once he was gone it became pretty meh

[u/Maeglom → u/chanandlerbong420]

I thought all the Luke Cage seasons had a banger for a first half and then a big fall off for the second half. Still it was pretty good overall, and I'd love more of it.

[u/chappyhour → u/Barneyk]

It’s a combination. Netflix did cancel them, mainly because they could take that production money and instead of giving it to Disney to make more of Disney’s IP, they could invest in their own IP. Netflix also licensed the rights of the Marvel shows for run of series plus 10 years, so if they wanted to they could have held onto them for Netflix. However, like any show that hasn’t had a new season in a few years, viewership was low and Disney offered money to get them back early.

[u/Throwaway4Discussion → u/Barneyk]

Any excuse for me to drool over Kristen Ritter and I'm in.

[u/AmIHigh → u/Barneyk]

I don't even care if a good show is canceled after 2 or 3 seasons.

I care when they don't give it an ending, or a super rushed terrible ending. I don't want to invest all this time and be told to fuck off.

If it's only 3 seasons let the writers know upfront and they can write a great 3 season show

They have some great mini series that are just 1 season and only ever planned to be 1 season.

[u/brightneonmoons → u/Icemna16]

Bojack didn't "survive" Netflix either, they axed it bc of the union forming. They only got a heads up to wrap things up in their last season bc the creator had made an agreement with corporate beforehand

[u/boxian → u/brightneonmoons]

how much more was planned, i wonder? or how much longer would that have spread out the last season. i was fine with where it ended, but i thought it was oddly rushed in places

[u/14sierra → u/boxian]

Makes a lot of sense though. I really liked bojack (and the fact that it didn't go on for like 20+ seasons like the simpsons or south park) but it definitely felt like the show needed at least a few more episodes (maybe even a season or two) to wrap things up properly.

[u/zuzg → u/14sierra]

While I agree I Still am thankful for an actual ending. Netflix should use that method for every of their shows.

Rather have a ton of finished shows that only lasted 2-3 seasons than the unfinished thing im still salty about Santa clarita diet, the dark crystal and lots of other shows.

[u/americanpegasus → u/boxian]

They wanted to do a 7th season where Bojack finally read his dad’s book.

[u/Lux_novus → u/boxian]

Before the last season concluded, I remember reading something about how they had an entire extra season worth of story that they wanted to do. The creator was pissed off that they had to drop all of it and wrap up in one more season.

[u/bigbirdgenocide → u/Lux_novus]

100%, RBW did say in an interview somewhere I cant remember that season 6 was not meant to be the last season.

[u/LetTruthSetYouFree → u/Icemna16]

Everyone in your replies is for some reason completely ignoring that animation is dirt cheap compared to live action. There’s a reason Simpsons, Family Guy, and South Park are in their 27 millionth seasons while shows like Rick and Morty get picked up for 10 seasons while they’ve only produced 3. Shows like The Daily Show, Tosh.0, and Ridiculousness similarly go on forever because the cost to produce them is a single actor in front of a green screen reading a teleprompter. Bojack survived the season 4 axe because drawing horses is cheaper than filming them.

[u/Dog_With_A_Blog_ → u/Icemna16]

Bojack was before Netflix went crazy. They basically had no good original shows at the time.

[u/Banneduser1112 → u/Dog_With_A_Blog_]

Not true, Netflix poured gasoline on the prestige tv revolution back at the beginning of the last decade. It was when most of the exciting, original shows were coming from Netflix (and HBO, but Netflix's felt more fresh and new): Orange is the New Black, House of Cards, Bojack, Love, Flaked, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more, and a little later Stranger Things show up.

EDIT: Forgot The OA and Sense8, which is funny because those were my favorite shows in that era

Netflix went after educated, moneyed early adopters in those years, so they made content for smart people. Once they had some scale, and smart phones became ubiquitous for anyone over 15, they switched to mass market tripe for the masses, essentially trying to duplicate network television. Just another casualty of smart phones ruining the internet.

[u/sheepsleepdeep → u/[deleted]]

Because of SAG and WGA rules and contracts, everyone involved in a production gets a very large raise when it reaches season 3.

For example:
Stranger Things Season 2 cost $80,000,000 for 10 episodes.
Season 4 is $270,000,000 for 9 episodes.

The costs of producing a show beyond season 2 are huge. Everyone touching the show is getting paid exponentially more from S3 and beyond. So for Netflix to renew a show for a third season, they better have data that indicates it's the primary content that a large chunk of their viewers watch, or that new seasons of that show result in new subscribers.

[u/ireallywantfreedom → u/sheepsleepdeep]

Anywhere I can read more about this?

[u/bebopblues → u/sheepsleepdeep]

If this is true, then they should only do shows with 20 eps per season. That guarantees each show will have at least 4 10eps seasons equivalent. Problem solved.

And if you can't tell a fucking story in 40 eps/40 hours, then fuck off.

[u/dyladelphia → u/bebopblues]

I'm so tired of the 8 episode season structure. Even more annoying when Russian Doll went from 8 to 7 episodes in Season 2.

[u/craftworkbench → u/bebopblues]

Right, and then do the ol’ AMC trick of splitting that season into two parts that air 6-12 months apart.

[u/DATY4944 → u/craftworkbench]

Then release a "miniseries" spinoff that's 15 episodes each over 2 seasons

[u/orincoro → u/sheepsleepdeep]

Yeah, and witness what happens when showrunners and talent avoid your network because you show no loyalty to hit shows.

Those rules are also in place because shows gain a lot of value by running more than 2 seasons. That value is in the long term interest of the network to foster. HBO has a backlog of dozens of top shelf shows because they invested in them. Netflix has a trail of broken promises.

[u/we_belong_dead → u/[deleted]]

And series need to stop with the cliffhanger bullshit in a desperate attempt to prevent cancellation

[u/helpful__explorer → u/we_belong_dead]

That has never, ever worked, even before the streaming days

[u/bl1y → u/we_belong_dead]

I think one of the reasons for the success of Game of Thrones early on was the lack of cliffhanger endings. The big events were always episode 9 (Ned's head, Khal Drogo funeral; Battle of the Blackwater; Red Wedding). Then you get a nice denouement episode 10, and instead of spending the break between seasons wondering "what happened" you could instead get hyped for "what's going to happen next because of what happened".

Way more engaging to spend the break wondering how Robb's war will go than wondering if Joffrey called off the execution at the last second.

[u/Maybe_Charlotte → u/we_belong_dead]

It's not about trying to prevent being cancelled, in most cases the season will have wrapped filming before the network or streaming platform makes cancellation decisions. Seasons ending on cliffhangers is about audience retention after a long break from a show. That's also why many TV shows from the pre-streaming era had mid-season two part episodes or cliffhangers.

[u/The-Insomniac → u/[deleted]]

They're taking a brute force approach to finding a working formula. Greenlight a whole bunch of new shows and then prune the poor preforming ones. It's like they're just prototyping but they made a whole business model around it.

Maybe only 5% of their users watched one particular show, and only 1% will get upset when the show is cancelled. They keep doing that though and it starts adding up until maybe 30% of their users are disgruntled to have had a show they like cancelled.

[u/OmegaPryme → u/[deleted]]

People binge watch their content. Then by time the next season comes out a year later people have lost interest and forgot what happened in the show.

[u/Daikar → u/OmegaPryme]

Yup, dropping the entire season at once is nice for me as a customer but I think it's very bad for RP and marketing. I really like the 3 episode at once then one per week deal. It creates discussions and hype on the internet for no cost at all. You can talk about the latest episode with your friends etc. But when you drop the entire thing right away all that kinda goes away.

[u/Hawk---- → u/[deleted]]

They cancel good shows, give way too many seasons to shows that are shit, and push shovelware shows that should in no way ever exist.

Netflix had very strong footing to become a producer of excellent content, and instead they shat all over themselves as though they were Scott Morrison in an Engadine Macca's after the footy in 1997.

[u/nobodyyouknow33]

Fun fact: this idea is not exclusive to working at Netflix. You can also quit ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING YOU DON'T LIKE!!!

[u/Points_To_You → u/nobodyyouknow33]

You also have this option as a customer.

[u/iambecomedeath7 → u/Points_To_You]

Unless there's a monopoly

[u/ux3l → u/nobodyyouknow33]

Pro tip: only quit after having a different job in prospect.

[u/Lvivity]

I liked Ozark, but now that it's over there are approximately zero shows I want to watch. Cutting content further is beyond stupid.

[u/Matthewmoffo → u/Lvivity]

I was super digging Archive 81, I really enjoyed the first season and so did many others.

Then they cancelled it.

[u/dan1101 → u/Matthewmoffo]

It's getting to the point where I don't want to start a series unless it's already done and I can read reviews that say it has a decent ending.

r/patientviewers

[u/Geekenstein → u/dan1101]

This is why I cancelled Netflix. Odds are they will cancel any show I start to watch, so why invest the time in any of their shows? Thanks, but no thanks.

[u/mcsestretch → u/Matthewmoffo]

Oh. I didn't know they had cancelled it. That's a shame.

[u/Risley → u/mcsestretch]

lol I’m never starting it bc I know it’s cancelled now.

[u/Tmebrosis → u/Risley]

If you’re interested you can listen to the original podcast (same name) it was based off of that is complete

[u/Stoicism0 → u/Tmebrosis]

How many podcasts are there in the world wow

[u/Wizzinator → u/Stoicism0]

At least 7 now

[u/oldtea → u/Risley]

It's actually a pretty complete story. I would like it to continue but the ending still makes sense exactly how it is

[u/BigGayGinger4 → u/Matthewmoffo]

it was the first interesting piece they've made in quite a while

but nope.

[u/eLishus → u/Matthewmoffo]

There’s a pretty sizable list of good shows that got canceled. I’m still not over the loss of Santa Clarita Diet.

[u/TomasHezan → u/eLishus]

The show was great. I talked it up to so many coworkers and when it got announced it was being canceled, most of them said why even bother starting it.

[u/Troodon79 → u/Matthewmoffo]

Well, it was a podcast first, so at least you still have the source material! I know it's not the same, but still

[u/FlatulentWallaby → u/Lvivity]

I hated the ending.

[u/OldBillBatter → u/Lvivity]

I’m looking forward to the final season of Stranger Things, but after that..? What do they even have on the horizon?

[u/FrazzledBear → u/OldBillBatter]

Yea I’m at the point where I’ll stay through Stranger Things s4 and then renew for a month when the final season comes out in 3-4 years.

They lost all the syndicated shows I used to watch and they never produced any new ones so their content is so disposable and hit or miss.

[u/Malfrum → u/OldBillBatter]

Arcane, eventually - although, that show will get made regardless of what Netflix decides, they just distribute it

[u/samtheboy → u/OldBillBatter]

They'll advertise the new season of The Witcher just after that I'm pretty sure....

[u/BasicDesignAdvice → u/Lvivity]

Meanwhile the new HBO Warner Brothers Discovery is putting more into content than any other company including Disney. Something like 20 billion just on content.

Hopefully the HBO side gets to decide what that content is. I assume the average discovery show costs pennies to make anyway.

[u/djc6535]

I like dunking on Netflix as much as the next guy but this title is misleading.

They aren’t asking employees to like the content. They’re saying that their employees have to accept that they will have content that they disagree with. Be that Sense 8 or Chapelle.

They’re saying that they have a wide range of content and if you are protesting against them you should leave.

[u/veils1de → u/djc6535]

The referenced section on the culture page really doesn't have that much shock value.

Entertaining the world is an amazing opportunity and also a challenge because viewers have very different tastes and points of view. So we offer a wide variety of TV shows and movies, some of which can be provocative. To help members make informed choices about what to watch, we offer ratings, content warnings and easy to use parental controls.

Not everyone will like—or agree with—everything on our service. While every title is different, we approach them based on the same set of principles: we support the artistic expression of the creators we choose to work with; we program for a diversity of audiences and tastes; and we let viewers decide what’s appropriate for them, versus having Netflix censor specific artists or voices.

As employees we support the principle that Netflix offers a diversity of stories, even if we find some titles counter to our own personal values. Depending on your role, you may need to work on titles you perceive to be harmful. If you’d find it hard to support our content breadth, Netflix may not be the best place for you.

Not sure if I should be surprised to see such clickbait from WSJ

[u/Theons-Sausage → u/djc6535]

Netflix's pricing strategies and customer appreciation suck. But I do think they have a pretty diverse catalogue of stand-up specials, documentaries and series in terms of viewpoint.

[u/acemccrank → u/[deleted]]

It is always a bad sign when a company starts cutting costs rather trying to figure out how to make more money without harming the user experience or product.

[u/cloxwerk → u/acemccrank]

They honesty can benefit from less of a firehose strategy to content green lighting though, aim for more quality control and spend better on promoting some good shows than they do now.

[u/directrix688]

Netflix culture, especially in regards to communication, is different. This is on brand for how their workplace culture operates. They are pretty blunt. Reed Hastings wrote a book about it, they’re wild.

It may sound harsh though the reality of the platform is they’re going to have content not all employees may agree with.

[u/Butt_Hunter → u/directrix688]

the reality of the platform is they’re going to have content not all employees may agree with.

And that's what their internal memo actually said. Not that if you don't like the content you can quit, but that you may have to work on content you find objectionable, and if you can't do that, you can quit.

Bad, dishonest headline.

[u/etaco2]

Without paywall: https://archive.ph/c9uzb

[u/Porrick]

I remember when Riot Games used to only hire fans, and you had to submit your summoner name with your resume. My wife was applying for a fucking HR position there and I had to help powerlevel her summoner to an acceptable level before her first interview.

Shit like that leads to groupthink. I work at a different game studio, and I'm fairly certain no interviewee is ever asked if they like our games. Hopefully they like our culture and get on well with the rest of the devs, but their taste in games is immaterial if they're not on the design or creative teams - and even on those teams we'd want diverse opinions far more than a set of people who only like the things we already did in the past.

There's a lot of positions at a company like Netflix where it should make no difference whether someone likes the content or not, and several teams where a diversity of taste is paramount. Unless your strategy is to be a niche provider to fans of a certain genre, it's a very bad thing to only hire people who all think the same way.

[u/proboardslolv5 → u/Porrick]

I'm reading a book called Console Wars about the fight between Nintendo and Sega in the 1990s. If they only hired hardcore gamers, nobody would know the name Sega. Their CEO (Tom Kalinsky) came from the toy industry and knew almost nothing about videogames before taking the job, but he managed to take Sega from a nobody in America to the main competitor with Nintendo for a few years, while Sega of Japan languished by comparison.

[u/Zooomz → u/Porrick]

There's a lot of positions at a company like Netflix where it should make no difference whether someone likes the content or not, and several teams where a diversity of taste is paramount.

Isn't that their point? I believe they're saying:

Whether someone is morally opposed to Chapelle's humor or the sexuality diversity in AJ and the Queen or even the controversy in Cuties, it shouldn't get in the way of doing their work. And if they truly believe Netflix's content must align with their personal morals/taste, they are free to quit.

[u/nowhereman136]

Only a small fraction of Hollywood can choose project they are actually passionate about. To everyone else it's just a paycheck. From accountants to actors, they get whatever job they can because they can't afford to turn down a project because "it sucks". Yeah, Tom Cruise and Meryl Streep can afford to say no to a bad movie, but Joe Johnman who works as a struggling writer is gonna rewrite the Candy Crush movie because that's what he's paid for

[u/WutIzThizStuff]

I managed bookstores for 32 years.

Every once in a while I had some employee who decided that they weren't going to stock or sell adult magazines.

They had the door pointed out to them.

[u/Jicama_Minimum]

Two sentences of the story and then a paywall

[u/SilkyBowner]

It’s that the same with any company

If you don’t like working there, quit.

Why is this such a hard concept for people

[u/Rizboel]

It's not like employees should have a say in what's gets made on Netflix unless they are in a high enough position to decide such things. If a low level grunt employee gets angry over a show on Netflix then they can quit and find another place to work.

[u/Captain_Hampockets]

Looks like none of the commenters are reading the article. This isn't about subscribers. It's about employees. Hence the title. It's about, "If you don't want to work on a project that might offend you, then quit."

[u/Interactive_CD-ROM → u/Captain_Hampockets]

No one cares to read it, they just want to complain