r/news May 27 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 2 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 2

Official: Kids to 911 during siege: 'Please send the police' Editorialized Title

https://apnews.com/article/430b975bbaacce445451e4026cedc171

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

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u/PBandJellyJesus May 27 '22

I just listened to the press conference. I wish I didn’t. I feel like throwing up.

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u/NorthwestTreeOctopus May 27 '22 Take My Energy

How are people not protesting in the street over this shit?

The lies are too much.

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u/zombie32killah May 27 '22 Silver Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Burning Cash Eureka! Doom

Oh you wanna see police actually do something... Protest in the street.

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u/NorthwestTreeOctopus May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Nothing has improved since the 2020 geroge floyd protests. In fact, cops have been given more money than ever before and they are still killing unarmed minorities.

And when an actual crime is happening, when they could prove those bloated budgets were worth a dime, they instead piss their pants and taser desperate unarmed parents while their kids get slaughtered inside a classroom.

yeah, we should be protesting in the streets.

We need Police Reform more than ever.

edit: I know he is making a joke here guys. Stop messaging me and trying to explain it. I am still pissed nothing has changed and more people are dead as a result. Even if the cops gas my city again, we should be protesting their shitty actions. We need to end the cops bloated budgets, put funding into better programs and get gun control passed!

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u/Pompoulus May 27 '22

That whole thing was a huge nationwide phenomenon, thousands of people all over the country braving brutality and arrest to make their voices heard. Nothing happened. It's tiring, man. All these cops are good for is using assault rifles and nightvision goggles to kill unarmed people and dogs.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/nandoboom May 27 '22

We need to take a page from the French, paralyze everything.. $$$ is the only thing the US cares about

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u/burningredmenace May 27 '22

Husband got shot in the side with a gas canister at a protest. He got charged with assault on an officer for that...

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/DRZ36 May 27 '22 Gold Helpful Take My Energy This

The picture of these fucktards in full tactical gear with assault rifles, body armor, helmets, communications gear and armored vehicles and they did fucking nothing. I actually have some sympathy for cops in this situation, this is a fucking nightmare scenario. But why the fuck do you have more military equipment there than a Dessert Storm squadron after you’ve been telling us for the last two years that no one understands the risks of your job and slapped “blue line” flags all of your car, just to fucking standby while elementary kids get slaughtered. Unarmed teachers died in Parkland trying to save kids.

Either your job isn’t to run in and save these kids, in which case stop militarizing police forces, stop giving qualified immunity to police officers, stop justifying all their overt violence by talking about the dangers of their job….or fucking do something. If you’re not going to save fucking 10 year olds getting shot while they live their last minutes watching their classmates get killed, then you don’t need a fucking gun because you’re just an overpaid security guard

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u/brumac44 May 27 '22

Now I understand "All hat, no cattle"

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u/Rakthul May 27 '22

All badge no balls.

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u/Zootrainer May 27 '22

I couldn't agree more. It's infuriating, sickening and appalling.

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u/dkf295 May 27 '22

I'm a person that extremely rarely feels anger and I'm fucking furious. Doubly so considering this is what they're presenting to make themselves look good. The truth is invariably a lot worse. Excuse me while I go rage-vomit myself.

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u/2SP00KY4ME May 27 '22

If horror, outrage, and evil was going to cause change, something would've happened after Sandy Hook. I have no hope left.

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u/vblade2003 May 27 '22 Helpful

"In retrospect, Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate.

Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over."

  • Dan Hodges, 2012

Pattern will hold - this will be in the news cycle through the weekend, and then forgotten by Monday. Until the next school shooting.

Rinse and repeat.

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u/MILITARY_SOURCE May 27 '22

The revelations about the cops' incompetence are an escalation, but you're right... This will just be a new aspect of the problem that we swallow. The ratchet keeps tightening.

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u/Stormtrooper-85 May 27 '22

I didn’t get to see it, can you give some highlights?

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u/NinjaLanternShark May 27 '22

Just look at the first sentence of this article:

UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Nearly 20 officers stood for about 45 minutes in the hallway outside the adjoining Texas classrooms where the gunman killed students and teachers this week before U.S. Border Patrol agents unlocked the door to confront and kill him, authorities said Friday.

20 officers stood outside the door for 45 minutes?

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u/alose May 27 '22

And then waited for another department to go in.

And then it gets even worse, as the police prevent Border Patrol from going in for over twenty minutes.

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u/guave06 May 27 '22

Why the fuck is the border patrol the one doing their jobs in the first place?

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u/Brian175 May 27 '22

Apparently they showed up because one of them got a text from their wife who was a teacher there while he was off duty getting a haircut.

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u/mathymate May 27 '22

The PD bragged about their SWAT and how capable they were before this occurred too. These poor parents, school staff members, and kids did not get any support from their PD. Such cowardice

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u/OutlyingPlasma May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Meanwhile the Mother who was famously handcuffed by police in front of the school, and then later released, jumped a fence, ran into the school and saved her children.

Some random middle aged woman did more than police did.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mother-handcuffed-outside-texas-school-202952406.html

Edit: How funny would it be if this woman ran and won the next election for sheriff?

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u/justaguy891 May 27 '22

Some random middle aged woman did more than police did.

its always been this way

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u/NinjaLanternShark May 27 '22

told the Journal that she drove 40 miles to the school when she heard about the shooting

Can you imagine driving 40 miles -- all the time hoping someone's doing something to keep your kids safe -- and then arriving and finding, nope. They're doing fuck all.

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u/skeletaldecay May 27 '22

She had the time to 1. Find out about the shooting, 2. Drive 40 miles, 3. Be handcuffed then released by police, and 4. Jump a fence and rescue her children before the shooter was killed.

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u/g1ngertim May 27 '22

I'm only about 2/3 through, but the biggest highlights thus far:

  • officers were in the building 30 minutes befire taking action
  • it was not considered an active shooter situation, despite active shooting
  • the shooter was into video games (apparently we're still on this bullshit)
  • the shooter was in possession of SIXTY magazines and 1000+ rounds of ammunition
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u/PLEASE_PUNCH_MY_FACE May 27 '22

A bunch of cowards in cowboy hats that act like heroes when it comes to shooting unarmed people but shrink when children are getting shot because they might get hurt.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

Yep. As much as it likes to advertise this tough guy bravado, Texas sure looks pretty cowardly after this week.

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u/Qss May 27 '22

Don’t mess with Texas, they’ll herd you into a classroom with their children.

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u/N8CCRG May 27 '22 Starry

McCraw said there was a barrage of gunfire shortly after Ramos entered the classroom where they killed Ramos but that shots were “sporadic” for much of the 48 minutes while officers waited outside the hallway. He said investigators do not know if or how many children died during those 48 minutes.

"Horror" is an often over-used word, but this description is truly horrific.

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u/Freighttrain4 May 27 '22

“Sporadic” aka hes executing kids in the room.

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u/taddymason_22 May 27 '22

Yup. Every shot they heard, was a kid getting shot, and they decided to wait.
Fuck them.

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u/ThisAltDoesNotExist May 27 '22

I saw some suggesting all the shots happened early on and was sceptical. Now I see this and think the same. They were standing outside listening to 4th graders getting executed. Motherfuckers.

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u/David-S-Pumpkins May 27 '22

But the cops might have been shot at.

That was one real life excuse. Even though they're listening to sporadic fire. Not one swat officer thought to time it so after maybe just a dozen children were murdered they could know when the gunfire would stop for the gunman to reload or play eenie meenie miney moe with schools children's heads and the swat team could breach the door. Not a single public servant dressed in bulletproof vests and helmets thought perhaps two or three or four trained officers all entering at literally any point over the course of an hour may have an advantage over one 18 year old and could stop the killing.

Their entire police department decided to say fuck training and protocol, our best, safest course of action is to allow 21 people to be murdered while we watch.

What a ringing endorsement for the department that they had such a public lack of trust and confidence in themselves.

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u/FallenKnightGX May 27 '22

He said investigators do not know if or how many children died during those 48 minutes.

This is very important information and with it the parents would have a stronger law suit.

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u/gingerkap23 May 27 '22

Great, so kids slowly died over the course of 50 minutes, amping up the terror in the children as their classmates were slowly slaughtered. Fucking disgusting.

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u/Wazula42 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

One girl covered herself in her classmates' blood and played dead. She survived.

Edit: she also says she had a friend who was shot in the leg. The surviving kids had to muffle her screams so the gunman wouldn't come back and find them.

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u/jellybeansean3648 May 27 '22 Gold

An 11-year-old child followed active school shooting rules better than the officers who responded to the scene.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/dearestramona May 27 '22

And unless she gets an entire team of support from mental health professionals, she’ll most likely be fucked up forever.

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u/NastyAzzHoneybadger May 27 '22

I’m sure all of the kids who had to hide for an hour while listening to gunshots and screaming are fucked for life.

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u/Deputy_Scrub May 27 '22

Don't forget the families of those kids.

And I have no idea how the surviving kids and teachers will return to that school the next year.

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u/AccidentalPilates May 27 '22

Not to worry I’m sure Texas has robust social services for helping deal with trauma and mental health.

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u/FalloutFPS May 27 '22

I’m not sure even that will be enough for a long time…the amount of survivors guilt and PTSD isn’t even fathomable

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u/nyxian-luna May 27 '22

Another kid did the same, but later died of injuries in the hospital. The worst part to me is that the kid probably would've survived if they'd gotten medical attention sooner.

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u/StAugustine94 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

The commander at the scene believed Ramos was barricaded inside and that the children were not at risk, McCraw said.

They stood there listening to “sporadic” gunfire from a classroom for 45 minutes but “didn’t think the children were at risk.”

Absolute fucking morons.

Edit: of course they fucking knew, that was what I was trying to imply, guys

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u/kingjulian85 May 27 '22

They fully knew what was going on, they're just desperately trying to spin this so that they can cover their asses as much as possible. It's just what cops do.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Matrix17 May 27 '22

Tell me what we need cops, and funding for police, for again when they don't do anything?

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u/lonestar-rasbryjamco May 27 '22

I mean the options at this point are:

  • They didn't think any children were in active danger

  • They thought children were in active danger and didn't care

  • They thought children were in active danger but decided their own safety was more important

All they have left is to look completely and utterly incompetent. Otherwise they have to admit they were either cowards or callous.

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u/dkwangchuck May 27 '22

And this is what they've come up with after a couple days of trying to figure out what to say.

The "absolute fucking morons" part is what they think we are.

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u/Pugasaurus_Tex May 27 '22

What the fuck did they think the sporadic gunshots meant?!? That he was firing at the wall??

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u/Katebobeight May 27 '22

It’s truly disgusting. I won’t be surprised if we learn some of these kids were alive but died because they couldn’t get first aid in time

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u/NinjaLanternShark May 27 '22

Did these men not hear children on the other side of the door screaming and crying?!? Just, how??

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u/woocee May 27 '22 Take My Energy

This is what I can’t comprehend. How can they listen to children screaming in terror and not have the primal urge to rescue them?

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u/NinjaLanternShark May 27 '22

40 minutes in a girl called 911 and literally asked "please send the police now."

How will she ever trust an adult again?

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u/Worried_Thylacine May 27 '22 Silver

The military has a thing called the “golden hour” where a casualty has a greatly increased chance of survival if they can get to trauma care in an hour (give or take).

I wonder how many of those lost could have been saved if they reached care in time.

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u/wordhurdles May 27 '22

This is what I hope causes judges to award these parents millions of dollars when they sue these overfunded, undereducated buffoons.

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u/crazybluegoose May 27 '22

I do hope that the parents at least get that, yes.

However, we shouldn’t let the governments (local, state, federal), effectively just continue paying their way out of responsibility to take action on preventing future problems.

Awarding a settlement is great, but we (as voting citizens) need to hold them accountable to making actual changes.

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u/runeatdrinkrepeat May 27 '22

This is also the case in emergency medicine. EMTs, paramedics, etc call it the same thing. Essentially the time between a traumatic injury and the operating table.

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u/Kahzgul May 27 '22

"sporadic" in this case means he was searching for survivors, finding them, and executing them. These cops should be charged. Violation of public trust, dereliction of duty, even aiding and abetting the murderer by buying him time.

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u/tokiemccoy May 27 '22

I just watched an interview with some supervisor who was proudly stating how well law enforcement did at “containment” and “control”. He was very proud of how well they controlled hysterical parents trying to get in.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 edited Jun 01 '22

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u/CarlosAVP May 27 '22

Let us not have a state investigation, but a federal one, conducted by federal law enforcement investigation units. While watching the coverage, I noticed that pretty much all the cops had body armor, long guns, sidearms, and other gear that pretty much any military would have. I don’t think any of those cops can hold their head up and look people in the eye in that town any longer.

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u/NastyAzzHoneybadger May 27 '22

As a small Texas town, I can’t imagine the cops will ever live this down.

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u/Myfourcats1 May 27 '22

😡 I don’t know what else to say. Every new story makes this story worse. Every one of those kids learned the police will let you die.

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u/Katebobeight May 27 '22

I can’t believe what I just read. The cops sat outside that room for 48 minutes, only heard sporadic gun shots and assumed there was no threat to any children.

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u/eepos96 May 27 '22

Cops literally stood in the hall way? For 48 minutes?

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

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u/Punkinprincess May 27 '22

Literally. They waited for border patrol to show up and take care of it.

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u/sanash May 27 '22

Cops: "Whoa...no way that guy has a gun, it's too dangerous to go in there. Let's just hang out and arrest some of these hysterical parents!"

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u/Benji2421 May 27 '22

And now they wanna be hailed as heros, completely unearned. It's so infuriating watching the police hide outside claiming they were "being careful and didn't wanna get shot". Maybe don't join the force if you don't wanna put your life in danger to save lives? Kids died well police stood around and blamed locked doors 😡

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u/CowCapable7217 May 27 '22

the sad part is cops literally never need keys

they constantly bash down doors of poor people, why the hell would this be any different

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u/tanguero81 May 27 '22

I'm required by my fire department to have keys in a special lockbox on my office so they can access any locking door inside the building. You're telling me the police don't require the same thing of a fucking school?

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u/blurplethenurple May 27 '22

Why the fuck would they need a key.

Either 1. It's barricaded like they said and a key would do nothing

Or 2. It's just locked. They have battering rams for shit like this.

I'm not cursing you out, this situation has got me heated and it just keeps getting worse.

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u/CHARLIE_CANT_READ May 27 '22

I heard the border patrol guy found a teacher with a key to unlock the door. How the cops remember to breathe in their sleep I have no idea.

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u/812many May 27 '22

I want to know how it was barricaded. I thought all classroom doors opened out into the hallway.

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u/SvedishFish May 27 '22

The door was not barricaded. The federal police that eventually went in just got a key from one of the school personell.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Skiingthepeaks May 27 '22

Yeah or you know the federal officers too. They had no problem pulling out the toys for protesters two years.

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u/Sports-Nerd May 27 '22

The federal swat team was there by 12 to 12:10. The cops wouldn’t let them in.

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u/phillies1989 May 27 '22

If that federal swat team never came they would probably still be waiting outside. I just can't fathom that someone yet multiple people in this case that took an oath to defend stood outside and were more worried about getting home that night safely than saving lives.

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u/Wazula42 May 27 '22

Imagine a firefighter not wanting to go into a building because he might get burned.

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u/AmethystOrator May 27 '22

They want their participation trophy even though they waited 45 minutes to participate.

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u/Yosho2k May 27 '22

"It's just a school shooting! It happens every week. Why would we risk police over that?"

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u/themimeofthemollies May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Outrageous. Horrific. Unimaginably tragic.

What a shameful moment in American history: when children are begging for help and dying, but the cops don’t come to save them.

The cops chose not to breach the classroom for 45 minutes, a devastating tactical decision that will live in infamy in American history.

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u/SsurebreC May 27 '22

The cops chose not to breach the classroom for 45 minutes, a devastating tactical decision that will live in infamy in American history.

Unless there are any consequences for the people - like firing the entire department and blackballing all these cowards nationwide - this will be just another day which will fade when the news cycle will move onto another tragedy.

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u/mulltalica May 27 '22

We all know there won't be. The police will investigate themselves, find that they did nothing wrong, and do what they can to wait for public attention to shift elsewhere. At most, we might get lucky and see a few officers let go and then promptly hired at the adjacent town's department.

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u/PixelmancerGames May 27 '22

Just when you thought that a dispatcher hanging up on someone during a mass shooting is the worse thing you’ll hear.

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u/Dudeist-Priest May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Except the ones that got their own kids. Which is even more disgusting

Edit - here is an officer talking about it - https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1529808809719480320?s=20&t=JOWvefKnZZgBRVBOiNQszA

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u/evee123zy May 27 '22

I can't even fathom what it would be like to wait 40 minutes in a hallway listening to the screams of children being gunned down.

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u/tmoeagles96 May 27 '22

Well don’t forget about asking kids to identify themselves so they can find survivors before stopping the shooter, so another kid dies because the shooter finds them after they call out.

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u/saeculacrossing May 27 '22

Director of the Public Safety Department told a reporter that none of the 19 officers in the school attempted to break into the classroom where the children & teachers were massacred bc they believed suspect was barricaded in and that “there was time” to get keys to the door.

He adds, shockingly, that there was a belief among officers that there was “no one living anymore” in that room. So they had time.

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1530222938619793408

Absolutely ghoulish. They should give us the name of the commander and everyone who stood around while those children were massacred.

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u/monkChuck105 May 27 '22

Aren't there windows they could break and climb through? At the very least put eyes on the shooter, verbally engage him, and shoot him if necessary? Why the hell do they need the keys to the door? I heard they even claimed that officers DID go to the windows of other rooms and evacuate kids, so why didn't they take control of areas that they could? They showed that there several rooms that the shooter shot at from outside, did they check on those kids and get any medical aid?

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u/genericmediocrename May 27 '22

Of course they could have gotten through the door, because it's not actually about the keys or the kids. The kind of person willing to heroically risk their lives to save kids don't become cops, power tripping psychos become cops. Kids were calling 911 the whole time, obviously they aren't dead and the cops knew it. It's just that none of them actually wanted to put their necks on the line, they joined up to beat and kill people, not to protect anyone.

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u/michelle1072 May 27 '22

Yeah, it's obvious the kind of people willing to heroically risk their lives to save kids become teachers. And how tf can you hear 911 calls from children STILL ALIVE and do nothing?

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u/genericmediocrename May 27 '22

Worse than that, the local cops were actively keeping the feds out, so they got to know that 911 was being called by kids AND THEN ACTIVELY FOUGHT TO MAKE SURE MORE DIED

It's so absolutely fucked I can't find the words

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u/idontknow394 May 27 '22

How could they believe that given the gunman discharged his gun sporadically during the 48 minutes they stood around? The thought that he might be picking off children one at a time during this time never crossed the mind of one of these 19 cowards? Unbelievable.

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u/dkf295 May 27 '22

Or that maybe, even if he DID shoot every kid in that room, that if they didn't wait 30+ minutes to render medical aid that maybe they could have at least saved the lives of AT LEAST one of them?

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u/lordyeti May 27 '22

There was a girl pretending to be dead lying on top of her dying friend. The friend died in the hospital. The cops definitely had the opportunity to save her, and failed to do so. They are all cowards.

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u/alose May 27 '22

At least one did survive by coating herself in the blood of her friends while she pretended to be dead and watch her friends die.

So yeah, if they entered earlier, they probably could have saved some of the children.

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u/Crimfresh May 27 '22

I think I read that 8 ( might have been fewer) died at the hospital. So yes, every minute counted.

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u/StAugustine94 May 27 '22

I think the problem is that they are cowards and chose to let those kids be slaughtered instead of risking their own lives

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u/__mud__ May 27 '22

Even assuming there was zero communication with 911 about the kids calling in for help, I'm sure children could have been heard screaming. There's no way they didn't know.

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u/foundthelemming May 27 '22

The “meh they’re probably all dead already anyway, so might as well do nothing” approach. Nice.

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u/TheTsunamiRC May 27 '22

Yes, definitely no chance there are any kids alive but bleeding to death, no point in rushing things...

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u/jungles_fury May 27 '22

Some of those kids may have lived with medical attention.

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u/Surly_Cynic May 27 '22

This is the quick school district press conference from the day of the shooting. The chief of the district’s police force, essentially a chief of just resource officers, was the incident commander. He speaks in this clip.

https://news.yahoo.com/uvalde-school-district-confirms-deaths-220334497.html

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u/NastyAzzHoneybadger May 27 '22

Literally spent more time explaining that they won’t be taking questions than providing any meaningful details regarding the situation. Jesus Christ.

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u/Buttsofthenugget May 27 '22

This is complete bullshit. The kids kept calling from both conjoined rooms he was in. They begged to get saved.

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u/UrbanDryad May 27 '22

If and when those 911 recordings come out if people don't riot I will lose the little remaining faith I have in this country.

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u/idontknow394 May 27 '22

"McCraw said there was a barrage of gunfire shortly after Ramos entered the classroom where they killed Ramos but that shots were “sporadic” for much of the 48 minutes while officers waited outside the hallway. He said investigators do not know if or how many children died during those 48 minutes."

They waited outside the classroom for 48 minutes while this monster took his time to murder the children in the classroom. There are no words to describe how reprehensible this is. What on earth did they think he was shooting at during those 48 minutes as he sporadically discharged his gun? How can anyone be so incompetent and callous at the same time?

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u/NinjaLanternShark May 27 '22

Do they expect us to believe a bunch of 4th graders were completely silent for 48 minutes? That they couldn't hear anything inside the room other than "sporadic gunfire?"

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u/idontknow394 May 27 '22 Gold

I don't buy that for a second. A kid lying next to their best friend is eventually going to start crying which explains nauseatingly well the "sporadic" nature of the gunfire coming from that classroom.

But what is almost as horrifying: with all the active shooter drills we've subjected our children to over the past decades they probably have been conditioned to be extremely quiet and still in situations like this. What no one anticipated as part of this is that in conditioning them like this over all these years we have created the perfect environment where, if the cops don't do shit like in this case, and which the Supreme Court affirms they don't have to, then a monster like this has the perfect environment to leisurely butcher the kids over the course of an hour!

The kids would have been better off just rushing off campus and out of their classrooms as fast as possible as opposed to holing up in the classroom and presenting themselves as a target rich environment. Our "strategy" on how to deal with events like this and the faith we've extended the police contributed to this monstrous event.

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u/TheDulin May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

One girl smeared her dead freinds blood onto herself to play dead and then laid with her dying classmates hoping he wouldn't shoot her. For 48 minutes.

Source

Edit: Fuck - girl survived some kinda tumor at three. Then, on the day of the shooting, she had an appointment or something and asked to go back to school to see her friends. She got dropped off an hour before watching those same friends get shot to pieces.

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u/NinjaLanternShark May 27 '22

I'd be surprised if, in all those drills, they ever once talked about what to do if the gunman is actually in the room with you.

Hiding in silence is great if the shooter doesn't know you're there -- but what, really, do you tell a 4th grader to do if they're in their classroom with a shooter, who still has tons of ammo, and 3/4 of your classmates are dead. What do you do?

Again, nobody's doing that drill. I don't see how you possibly could -- nor should anyone have to.

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u/idontknow394 May 27 '22

The options are hide, fight or run.

Hide only works when you can have faith that someone is coming to rescue you. Clearly that premise is out.

Fight only works when you have even a remote chance of overpowering your opponent. Even mobbing the monster that's likely not an option for fourth graders.

The only option that leaves then is to run. That's risky but of the three options left is the one that presents the kids with a chance.

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u/BabyYodaX May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Student calls to 911: *12:03 whispered she's in room 112 *12:10 aid multiple dead *12:13 called again *12:16 says 8-9 students alive *12:19 student calls from room 111 *12:21 3 shots heard on call *12:36 another call *12:43 asks for police *12:47 asks for police

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/us/texas-shooting-911-call-press-conference.html?smid=url-share

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u/JamboreeStevens May 27 '22 Wholesome Starry

A whole new generation is going to be wholly against the police. There's almost no way to undo this incredible lack of trust.

Uvalde police showed those kids what police are actually like, and the children will never forget it.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 Gold

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/dearestramona May 27 '22

You don’t even need to be a survivor to feel untrustworthy. I sure don’t. The Louisville police don’t even bother showing up to reports of shootings anymore and now tell you to, I kid you not, “go outside and let us know what direction it’s coming from”.

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u/ambushaiden May 27 '22

The month before I moved back home, bullets went whizzing by my apartment balcony. It was about 4 am. I was on said balcony when it happened. I counted 9 shots I believe. I immediately went inside, checked on my wife and newborn son, locked up and called the cops.

They literally never came. I waited until 6:30 AM, and no one showed.

This was in Kennesaw, GA, a college town, about a mile from campus. May of 2016.

I used to recount that story as a crazy unusual thing that happened, now I realize it’s commonplace.

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u/scoutking May 27 '22

Summed it up.

The social contract is coming apart.

And thats a time i really dont want to be having the gun conversation. Id rather instill trust back into systems and society before that.

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u/klavin1 May 27 '22

Those poor kids were begging for help...

These FUCKING worthless PIGS

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u/ILoveTheAtomicBomb May 27 '22

The on-site commander believed the gunman, 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, was barricaded in a classroom at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde during Tuesday’s attack and that the children were not at risk, Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said at a news conference.

“He was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize” to get into the classroom, McCraw said.

“Of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision,” he said.

One of the most infuriating things I have ever read. Fire and prosecute them all.

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u/Akukaze May 27 '22

cops listening to children screaming and crying as they die while shots continue to sound "The children are under no immediate threat, take your time boys."

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u/kwangqengelele May 27 '22

“We have confirmed that our children are not in that room. We’re gonna wait for the gunman to tire himself out.”

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u/themastermatt May 27 '22

Sure seems like everyone else on the scene knew what was happening. The scrambling police are doing to attempt covering their asses is astounding. "It was this one dumbass! see! if it werent for him we would have done much better! can we has moar money??"

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u/torpedoguy May 27 '22

And now that they're learning the police were already there, waiting for them to die.

That's a lesson those children will not soon forget.

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u/TaliesinMerlin May 27 '22

I don't know how a kid could be old enough to know what happened and not be scarred by the systemic failure of it all.

I'd never trust or respect a cop again.

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u/Jwalla83 May 27 '22

I'd never trust or respect a cop again.

I mean I don't, and I wasn't even in this situation. I think it's a pretty rapidly spreading sentiment

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u/QuirkyQuarQ May 27 '22

The incident commander was the chief of the school police. The Border Patrol tactical team arrived around 12:10 PM, but the school & local cops prevented them from going in until 12:50 PM, mistakenly believing that no kids were at the risk and the shooter had just locked himself alone in a classroom (!).

Also, the town's local SWAT team, paraded about on their Facebook, was nowhere to be seen.

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u/Wrecker013 May 27 '22

I can't believe I find myself rooting for the BORDER PATROL of all people.

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u/double-beans May 27 '22

More students have been killed on campus by gunfire than police officers by gunfire in the line of duty in 2022 (so far).

Source: Officer Down Memorial Page

https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2022

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u/Drawing_Wide May 27 '22

Half of those are COVID-19 related. Kinda weird to consider that in the line of duty tbh...

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u/Larrys_Human May 27 '22 Gold Tearing Up

We should fly “Thin Crayon Line” flags in honor of those who are truly at risk.

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u/goldensnooch May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

We need to make a flag

Edit: Send to Quentin Quarantino to post on their insta page for visibility. They’ve raised millions for Uvalde already.

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u/Loremika May 27 '22

This is just getting worse with each update

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u/RamoneMisfit May 27 '22

They waited forty fucking eight whole minutes while kids begged for help as they were being shot.

Really takes me back to the forty minutes they waited when a girl was being mauled by 2 dogs when she was supposed to be dogsitting, also in Texas.

Why do they even have guns?

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u/Rawlberto May 27 '22

To threaten physical violence on the parents of the victims apparently.

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u/bkconn May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

I'm watching the press conference again right now. The guy says there were something like 19 officers in the hallway, outside of the locked classroom..

He also says the plan that was enacted was to wait for 'more officers and equipment to breach'

But then he also states that Texas fully supports and trains the "active shooter doctrine" which means any and all officers present on the scene are to stack and breach and engage the suspect until he is neutralized.

Clearly that isn't what happened.

edit: It seems to rest on the idea that the officers present assumed that there were no longer any children at risk inside of the classroom. Meaning they assumed anyone inside was already deceased and the shooter was simply barricaded inside 'to keep officers at bay' or 'lure them into suicide by cop'

edit edit: Yes, 911 operators took calls from students inside, and it appears they knew some students were still alive or wounded, but it's currently being reported that the officers on scene weren't aware and assumed any additional rounds fired in the classroom, were at the door/officers.

edit: added link to the video: https://youtu.be/AEOQVP6iDPY

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u/clumaho May 27 '22

So, none of those children were in need of medical attention?

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u/velocityjr May 27 '22

Bleeding to death in 4 classrooms.

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u/LonesomeCrowdedW May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

I'm curious if we'll find out how true that was. Apparently, kids were calling 911 in the class and they could hear screaming. I'm not sure, however.

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u/bkconn May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

They are stating that some children called 911, and gunshots could be heard over the call. I also believe they stated that at least one of the 911 callers survived the shooting. It seems like it was a survivor from the classroom in question, but it's not 100% clear to me.

While the shooter was outside the school, he shot into several different classroom windows that were NOT the room he entered and died in. So there were likely students from other classrooms calling 911 as well, but I believe they are reporting no one was wounded from those window shots.

edit:https://youtu.be/AEOQVP6iDPY?t=572 Here is the section where he describes the 911 calls. Even with the limited information he's sharing, it's just fucking chilling.. horrific..

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u/badedum May 27 '22

What's absolutely infuriating is that first Greg Abbott press conference where he is praising the LEOs for saving lives, that they did their jobs, and then we come to find out that it's an utter blatant lie.

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u/mydogsredditaccount May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Isn’t this contradicted by the reported timeline of 911 calls from the kids?

Edit: https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1530238057454047232?s=20&t=3-sNEjINc-Wxnl27t6uBPA

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u/bkconn May 27 '22

Absolutely. I'm heard journalists asking the obvious question: If 911 operators knew there were still children alive inside, then why didn't the officers know?

But I didn't hear a proper answer to that.

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u/a_satanic_mechanic May 27 '22

There is no conceivable way they could have known to any level of certainty the status of kids in those rooms.

These lying pigs are just saying anything to give themselves a shred of deniability to hide behind.

The assumption is always that there are living or wounded in need until all evidence points to the contrary.

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u/vzo1281 May 27 '22

As per Abbots words, " they did a good job and it could have been a lot worse".

You know, because only 19 kids are dead and not more.

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u/Rawlberto May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

19 officers in a hallway could not figure out a locked door.

19 officers were frozen in terror and cowardice by one dipshit armed teenager.

19 officers stood as 19 kids were massacred.

Fuck the police.

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u/cgoldberg3 May 27 '22

The department should be disbanded and enforcement handed over to the state troopers

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u/FlaxwenchPromise May 27 '22

How did they think during school hours, with children literally calling for help that they were no longer at risk with an active shooter that was barricaded in a classroom?

They need to just get the fuck out of here with this shit. We can clearly see that these kid's blood is equally on their hands. They failed them.

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u/dkf295 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

They had a girl in the room that for over 40 minutes was updating them on less and less kids being alive. While cops were sitting around waiting for a tactical team listening to screams and shots being fired, while preventing a tactical team from the US Marshalls Border Patrol from actually resolving the situation. And this is the information they're releasing voluntarily while trying to cover their own asses.

This is about as horrible of a situation as can happen and if this doesn't spark massive police reform, literally nothing will.

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u/JasonGD1982 May 27 '22

I don’t think people realize yet this was not just a tragedy but a complete fucking failure. It’s ridiculous. All of it. Kids with smart phones begging for the police help and we have video of guys wearing body armor holding big boy guns. This whole thing is fucked up.

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u/dkf295 May 27 '22

Oh it's worse than that. The guys wearing body armor with big boy guns holding back and tasing parents and preventing border patrol tactical teams from taking action.

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u/liquidthex May 27 '22

this is the information they're releasing voluntarily while trying to cover their own asses.

It's wild that the police spokes person thought "our officers could have got shot, and then the shooter would kill more kids!" was a valid line of reasoning.

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u/bikestuffrockville May 27 '22

Stop the barricaded false narrative. He locked the door. So a locked door is now an insurmountable obstacle for the police?

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u/Raps2k14 May 27 '22

They seem to be able to do those “No-knock warrants” pretty easily

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u/jawndell May 27 '22

No-knock warrants

Those are only for unarmed civilians that can't shoot back.

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u/QuirkyQuarQ May 27 '22

Well, they ultimately blew past the barricade....with keys borrowed from a janitor.

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u/landmanpgh May 27 '22

Even this argument is wrong. They're not saying a locked door was too much, they're saying he was no longer an active shooter because he was "barricaded" in a classroom. If that were true, then yes, it would be correct to say that they were now dealing with a hostage situation and rushing in could've been more dangerous to the children than waiting outside and negotiating with him.

The problem with that is that he had already shot and continued to shoot children while he was in there. That's not a barricaded/hostage situation. That's an active shooter.

The police fucked up big time here. Commander on the scene more than anyone, but every single cop on scene could've disobeyed orders and breached that fucking door. They knew kids were injured and dying inside, but stood around waiting for a good 45+ minutes while kids inside we're calling 911 and begging for help.

I know Reddit is extremely cynical, but I'd be willing to bet that multiple cops are fired, at least one will be charged with a crime, and the police department/city will go bankrupt paying out lawsuits. And that's probably the best case scenario. Any one of the parents of these kids could go rogue here.

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u/torpedoguy May 27 '22

They never gave a shit about the kids. When the shooter was barricaded with the victims, "no longer at risk" was self-referential.

THEY were safe. And that was the only thing the police cared about. Just like in every other shooting they heroically hung around outside of.

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u/mazing_azn May 27 '22

This line of Serenity (2005) comes to mind for those Officers. The Operative : You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords.

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u/Katebobeight May 27 '22

I had to read this 3 times to fully grasp the incompetence on a level I’ve never seen before. The negligence is criminal.

The on-site commander believed the gunman, 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, was barricaded in a classroom at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde during Tuesday’s attack and that the children were not at risk, Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said at a news conference.

“He was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize” to get into the classroom, McCraw said.

“Of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision,” he said. shortly after Ramos entered the classroom where they killed Ramos but that shots were “sporadic” for much of the 48 minutes while officers waited outside the hallway. He said investigators do not know if or how many children died during those 48 minutes.”

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u/TheRealNotJared May 27 '22

Police on the scene: “best I can do is taze your mom.”

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u/bright_shiny_objects May 27 '22

He was trying to blame someone for propping a door open instead of saying the cops screwed up.

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u/Agent_Angelo_Pappas May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

I don't get how people expect building the size of schools, which are full of children, could ever be possibly secured via locked doors. Security should assume doors are going to inevitably get propped open at a school.

My company employs only adults, who are paid relatively well to follow policies, and people still routinely ignore security policies and open up doors to let others into the building out of courtesy.

If someone walks up to a side door during school hours and knocks when they see a kid wander by, there's a good chance that kid is going to let them in. Young kids are notoriously unpredictable when it comes to following rules. Or you know, a shooter might have access to a Home Depot where they can just buy a tool to smash glass and let themselves in. Schools are not fortresses.

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u/llamande May 27 '22

Imagine this from a cybersecurity perspective. Let's say every employee of a company has to open a program and if they forget to close it then the company can get hacked. They would %100 get hacked within days, because it's an impossible standard to rely on. If your system relies on humans never making a mistake then it isn't a system suitable for humans.

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u/walrussss May 27 '22

Not only that but as an elementary teacher, the back doors usually go to the playground. How are you gonna have those doors locked all day? Imagine the number of kids who would get stuck outside. And at my last school, our building was way too small so we had over 6 portables. The back door had to be unlocked so kids could go to the bathroom. When you have children spending all day in your building, locked doors are dangerous. Schools are a community building. Are fire stations locked? Are police stations locked? Are libraries locked? Hospitals? It’s insane to expect schools to be locked when their purpose is to serve the community and the families of our children.

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u/Rawlberto May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

If a locked door can befuddle your entire fucking department, the whole thing just needs to be razed.

I don’t know in what world anyone would think it’s an advantageous spin to say “no, we weren’t cowards; the officers are so fucking god damn dumb that even when putting 19 of them together, they were unable to piece together how to get past a door. The shooter was obviously a genius of infinite intellect.”

Jesus fucking Christ

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u/stumpcity May 27 '22

It is astounding to me (Just saw a clip of Sean from The Real World interviewing Kevin McCarthy on Fox News) that Ted Cruz's astoundingly, fucking bone-stupid talking point about it being THE DOOR'S FAULT is what the party is going to run with.

The House Minority Leader went on the party's propaganda megaphone, talked to the retired elected reality-star, and pushed the line that this could have been prevented if there were LESS DOORS.

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u/polloloco81 May 27 '22 Silver

Don’t think doors stopped them from murdering Breonna Taylor.

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u/bright_shiny_objects May 27 '22

Yesterday Ted told a reporter “this is the safest country in the world” after being ask questions about the shooting.

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u/ArcticIceFox May 27 '22

"safest country in the world"

FOR THEM

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u/KamikazeKitten916 May 27 '22

Yeah and the shooter had no problem getting in through an unlocked door but cops couldn't figure out how to get inside? 🙄 okay.

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u/Lost-Pineapple9791 May 27 '22

They did send the police

Who then stood outside for 90 minutes

While subduing and pulling guns on the parents outside trying to go in and save them 🤦‍♂️

America is so fucked

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u/FigmentsImagination4 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

A lot of ego boosting cops in that area it seems. Everyone of them wants to be a hero, but chose not to do anything for an hour.

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u/Sleeze_ May 27 '22

Everyone wants to be a hero until its time to do hero shit

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u/BigHarryMC May 27 '22

Let’s not forget that they are pretty sure the cops didn’t shoot any of the kids

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u/Boon-Lord May 27 '22

This is really something i wish was being talked about more. There needs to be an investigation into cross fire...Those poor kids :(

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u/elister May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Lets blame it on the 911 operator for not telling the police that kids were being killed in the school? This is their justification for sitting outside for 40-60 minutes waiting for some tactical squad to show up? Are the cops deaf? How can you assume that the kids are safe, that theres no need to storm the building, when the shooter is still firing off rounds, still killing people. "Oh that must be someone lighting off firecrackers", no need to take action? Aint that some bullshit.

Parents are already there, many in contact with their kids in next door classrooms frantically telling them theres a shooter and still the cops did nothing. "No no, 911 said everyone is safe and im going to need you to calm the fuck sir or I'll have to tazer you".

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u/PaulWilliams_rapekit May 27 '22

I just don't understand how the police can be such cowards. The parents would have done something but the police were cowards, but authoritarian cowards who beat up on parents while allowing their kids to die.

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u/kenji998 May 27 '22 Starry

Send the police so they can stand outside where it’s safe while the kids are getting slaughtered. Serve and protect. Yeah, right.

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u/tracytirade May 27 '22

Well, they protected themselves from being shot.

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u/warmhandswarmheart May 27 '22

So let me get this straight. The police will break down a paramedic's door and shoot her dead because she MAY be armed but they have to wait FOR A KEY to a classroom where a known gunman is slaughtering children. Do I have that right? Were they waiting for the key or were they waiting until they got their own children to safety?

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u/surefire13 May 27 '22

Yeah it's too bad one of those 19 officers didn't have their own child in that classroom. Would have been a different outcome for sure,

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u/CallMeButtercup May 27 '22

The next time this shit happens the parents may as well just swarm the fucking police, strip them of their weapons and go in themselves. There's les of a chance their kids will fucking die than waiting for those cowardly bastards to do anything.

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u/Goodbadugly16 May 27 '22

When little children have a better chance at getting something from Santa’s call in workshop than they do the police, there’s something really wrong in society.