r/dataisbeautiful OC: 24 May 27 '22 All-Seeing Upvote 3 Take My Power 1 Silver 7 Helpful 6 Wholesome 3

[OC] Guns are the Leading Cause of Death for Children in the US R8 Political Post/Not Thursday

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47.1k Upvotes

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u/LepkiJohnny May 27 '22

what happened in 2013? to my knowledge, gun laws did not change that significanlty since then. What caused such a sudden uprise?

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u/jjcpss OC: 2 May 27 '22 Eureka!

See the larger picture here, 2008 is not a good starting year: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/uz1icc/oc_cdc_details_of_firearm_cause_of_death_for/

Basically a rise in suicide among white teens and homicide among black teens (probably both caused by Financial Crisis)

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u/otterspam May 27 '22 Starry

The other thing missing from this chart that I've seen with the same dataset is the incredible spike in drug overdose deaths over the last few years.

This is the chart the scientist who published the data used

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u/Hiseworns May 27 '22

So the good news is that cars got a lot safer?

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u/lacksenthusiasm May 27 '22

Also the seatbelt alerts made seatbelts more commonly used. Kids fly even in the smallest of crashes

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u/Kit_starshadow May 27 '22

Safer care seats is my guess

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u/lenin1991 May 27 '22

Many states have also ratcheted up the requirements of how long kids need to be in booster seats. My state requires them until age 8 for example, way longer than used to be the case.

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u/BeatlesTypeBeat May 28 '22

8? Wow, maybe my mom wasn't over protective after all.

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u/recumbent_mike May 28 '22

Nobody was before like 1995

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u/Im_a_little_parakeet May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

In my country the booster seat is a requirement until the child ir 150 cm high (about 4 feet, 11.055 inch). Age doesn't matter since everyone grows at a different pace. And it's because of the seat belt being too high for a smaller child, which can choke it, if the seat belt is at neck level.

Edit: For those of you, who are wondering, the adults don't have to be on a booster seat if the hight requirement is not met. It's kind of a blured line at this point. It doesn't say anything about grown people and shortness. So yeah... I guess it's on their own risk and the police officers just don't pay attention to this. Short people problems, am I right? Batum-tss...

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u/lenin1991 May 28 '22

Yup, a few US states are height based, requiring 4'9" (145cm). Could lead to awkwardness with some adult women.

When I was a kid in the 80s, no cars had shoulder belts in the back seats. So no problem!

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u/Sososkitso May 27 '22

I keep saying this but this addition that you just made means while the gun laws definitely need fixed and adjusted the biggest issue is mental health of Americans. And I hate to say this but it’s gonna get a lot worse….

We seriously need to focus on the mental health crisis. I hate that every time one of these tragedies Happen it just ends up being one side saying “don’t take my guns” and the other side saying “ban all guns” and we completely gloss over the fact that a majority maybe even close to all of these shooters are angry, disenfranchised, lost, and more often then not on some kind of ssri. We could fix this whole situation if we just focused our attention on the root of the problem. Instead we never will and if anything it’s just one more talking point that’s fuel to a civil war that we seem to really be wanting judging by the “civility” between political parties.

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u/11711510111411009710 May 27 '22

It's more like one side says it's a mental health problem but refuses to actually do anything about it, and one side that acknowledges it's both a gun and mental health problem, but doesn't have any power to address either issue.

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u/mostlyBadChoices May 27 '22

probably both caused by Financial Crisis

This can't be emphasized enough: The root cause of pretty much all violence and crime is poor economic conditions for the masses. There is a lot of talk of needing gun control and better mental healthcare, and both are true. But the biggest contributing factor is poverty, poor education and generally poor socioeconomic factors. If you improve living conditions for the general population, crime/violence goes down.

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u/bluehands May 27 '22

There is this cognitive dissonance where money comes into play.

our entire system is under pinned by money, where fewer and fewer people have a larger percentage of the money, where our oligarchs insist that our system must continue to be organized around money but money is never the problem.

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u/grombleduke May 28 '22

And if you dare suggest money is the problem then you're automatically accused of being jealous of billionaires or some similar nonsense to try to trivialize your points.

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u/JumpinFlackSmash May 27 '22

Don’t worry, we’re going to force a lot more unwanted children to be born into poverty. What could go wrong?

Get ready for those violent crime rates to go back to 1970s and 1980s levels.

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u/BoxHeadWarrior May 27 '22

Not sure if it's relevant, but the first thing that comes to mind was Sandy Hook, which happened at the very end of 2012.

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u/FartingBob May 27 '22

Looking at the total numbers, sandy hook was barely a blip on this chart with 20 deaths out of about 1300 gun deaths of children that year, that's less than 2% of the total. Which is utterly horrifying to think about.

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u/FirstTimeWang May 27 '22

Yeah, but it had been widely covered in the national media, probably the biggest such incident up to that point. It was covered for months.

There's a theory out there that media coverage of mass shootings causes more mass shootings. Like it puts the idea in people's heads or something.

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u/SnipesCC OC: 1 May 27 '22

Also, most gun deaths will be 1 or 2 at a time. Sandy Hook was 20 at once. It's much like how car crashes kill a lot more people than plane crashes, but plane crashes get a lot more coverage because it's lots all at once.

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u/johnhtman May 27 '22

Yet you're still more likely to die in a car crash on the way to/from the airport than in a plane crash. It's actually believed that there were around 1,500 extra car accident deaths in the wake of 9/11 from people choosing to drive instead of fly.

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u/FirstTimeWang May 27 '22

Sandy Hook was 20 at once. It's much like how car crashes kill a lot more people than plane crashes, but plane crashes get a lot more coverage because it's lots all at once.

26 counting the adult staff members as well. It was also, to my knowledge, the first targeted mass shooting at an elementary school. That 20 of the victims were 6-7 years old definitely multiplied the heartbreak and corresponding coverage.

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u/IceDreamer May 27 '22

That's no theory, it's a fact. Multiple school shooters have explicitly stated that they got the idea when they saw it happen elsewhere on the news.

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u/UnflinchingVow May 27 '22

I wonder if part of the reason we dont see women or girls commit school shootings is because of cultural conditioning. If a girl is being bullied or some of the other triggers for a school shooter it might not even be imaginable for them because from a cultural perspective, its just not something they do. Whereas for guys they have examples all over the media that basically say: If a guy is bullied one of his options is to go shoot up a school. I mean obviously there are going to be other factors but I wonder how significant this is.

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u/eolaiocht May 27 '22

The idea that bullying is a factor in school shootings gained a lot of traction after Columbine but there’s no evidence that was the case. Often the shooter is also the school bully.

As to why spree or mass shooters are overwhelmingly men, I’ve read that they’re more likely to externalize blame and believe others are at fault for how they feel.

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u/davesreddit123 May 28 '22

They really covered up the fact that the columbine shooters were big hitler fans and weren't all that unpopular.

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u/freethenipple23 May 27 '22

I think in general women are conditioned by society not to retaliate. Women are a lot more likely to internalize things.

It's not lady like to be violent /s

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u/miclowgunman May 27 '22

Also pair it up with the general concensus of "your a man, suck it up" to mental illness/damage. Men are told to not rely on others because that is weakness. That they should solve their own problems. Then treated as violent predators when the lash out in frustration. Sometimes, in the face of crippling anxiety and alienation, a gun looks like the easiest way to solve being invisible.

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u/DevilsWelshAdvocate May 27 '22

Not that I’m arguing it shouldnt be, but 17 year old dying from gun violence falls into this chart, which is far more likely to be gang violence statistic than anything else. Just thought it was worth noting.

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u/DroneAttack May 27 '22

You can go to CDC's website and pull the source data that was used to generate this report. 15, 16 and 17 account for over half of the gun deaths in 2020.

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u/TheMeanGirl May 27 '22

More likely suicide. Something like 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicide.

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u/lithium142 May 27 '22

You’re assuming gangs are only adults, which couldn’t be further from the truth. There are literal grade schoolers that are active gang members

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u/kitzdeathrow May 27 '22

Addressing gang violence and gun violence are good things to do.

Lets do both. At the same time. And quickly as opposed to the classic "do nothing" approach.

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u/SaariToTellYou May 27 '22

Indeed the world ended in 2012

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u/PoorCorrelation May 27 '22

It looks like there was a huge spike in gun purchases after Sandy Hook and it’s continued to generally rise.. The deaths caused by those guns would lag behind their purchase a bit.

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u/rastahorn May 27 '22

I have a theory that school shootings increase the amount of guns purchased in the short term.

School shooting occurs > media publicizes it > some people call for stricter gun control > in turn some people buy more guns (or purchase their first) in fear that gun control is coming and they may not have the access to buy them in the near future

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u/LeCrushinator May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

That theory has been examined and they've shown a correlation. They've shown that legislators talking about gun control increases demand for guns. I don't have a source handy at the moment but I've seen various articles about it over the years.

EDIT (adding source):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369030/

Gun sales are more frequent since 2012, with an additional increase following both mass shootings and legislative changes enacted in response to these shootings.

Before October 2011, there was no statistically significant sustained effect of mass shootings on sales (except Col); however, since a statistically significant proportional spike in sales occurred in the months immediately following every single deadliest mass shooting event. Every year since 2012, CA has strengthened gun laws in response to mass shootings yet sales have risen immediately preceding enactment of these laws each January.

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2019/june/mathematics-ties-media-coverage-of-gun-control-to-upticks-in-gun.html, links to an article that's behind a paywall (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-019-0636-0)

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u/n0st3p0nSn3k May 27 '22

A good chunk are suicides. I blame mental health decline paired with parents who don't secure their firearms in a safe

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html

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u/send_me_chickfila May 27 '22

I mean you can even look at this graph and see that self harm was on the rise at exactly the same time as gun deaths. Mental health issues are real.

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u/BoomThroatPunch May 27 '22

Suicides have been raising for a while.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

Maybe the explosion of social media, coinciding with online bullying, and kids doing dumb things for attention? Like playing with guns on IG. Seen several videos of that ending with someone getting shot.

I actually had a friend who mistakenly let off a shot while showing us his grandfathers gun, one night after we got home from a club. Thankfully nobody was hit, just scared the fuck out of everyone.

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u/Ayzmo May 27 '22

I do know that conservatives really freaked out about Obama's second term and gun sales went up a huge amount. More guns in homes means easier access.

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u/mrdibby May 27 '22

looked at that graph and was like "uh huh, as soon as Obama's 2nd term it hasn't stopped going up"

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u/mhwnc May 27 '22

Obama even made that a point during a town hall meeting when asked by a conservative why he was “restricting the rights of lawful gun owners”. His response was something to the effect of “I’m not restricting the rights of lawful gun owners. More guns have been sold during my presidency than that of any President before. But there has to be a middle ground between not regulating guns at all and the outright ban you think we’re trying to impose.”

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u/Rin-Tohsaka-is-hot May 27 '22

Bear with me because I'm about to make several assumptions:

  1. Between 2010 and 2013, firearm production in the US nearly doubled: https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/blog-post/numbers-guns-america

  2. The majority of firearms related deaths are not murder, but rather suicide: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

  3. Here is where the assumptions begin. I'm going to assume that people who once may have committed suicide by other means are now commiting suicide with guns because of more access to guns from the excess manufacturing. Basically, more guns = more gun deaths.

Don't have the data to back up that conclusion, just a theory.

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u/The1stNikitalynn May 27 '22

If someone commits suicide with a gun they are more likely to succeed then someone who tries other means.

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u/innergamedude May 27 '22

Which is why men are more likely to *complete a suicide than women: men are more likely than woman to use guns. So, as George Carlin says, "We're better at it!"

*Mental health professionals prefer the term *"completed" suicide to "successful" suicide, and it's kind of the same joke as George Carlin's making.

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u/johnhtman May 27 '22

Even in countries without guns men are more successful.

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u/Frenzal1 May 27 '22

When Aussie instituted it's gun bans the number of households with guns dropped. The number of successful suicides also dropped.
When you don't have easy access to firearms you tend to use methods more likely to give you a second chance.

America's gun culture definitely makes their suicide problem worse.

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u/EternalPhi May 27 '22

Guns have the perfect trifecta for suicide: quick, painless, easily accessible. Bonus points for "extremely effective" as well, but the other 3 are the ones that are most commonly associated with suicide attempts occurring in the first place.

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u/_BeerAndCheese_ May 27 '22

Not just other methods, it's more likely a person won't attempt in the first place if they don't have such an easy way to attempt.

Part of my job is to keep kids safe, from harming themselves or others while under my care. There are so many tiny roadblocks that can be put up in front of someone who is deeply suicidal that will prevent them from attempting at all. Actual example, a door being cracked open was the difference between a kid on our unit reading in his room, and using a sharp object to slash himself to literally paint the walls red with his blood once a staff allowed him enough time with the door completely closed. Thankfully the kid survived. But that door being cracked was enough of a roadblock to him attempting in all the weeks before. Imagine if that kid had a gun readily available in his home. No chance he would have made it long enough to come to my unit.

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u/Boys4Jesus May 27 '22

I'll add my anecdotal experience for what it's worth. I used to be suicidal, and it was a lot easier to talk myself out of sitting by the train tracks or vomiting after attempting to overdose than it would be to undo pulling a trigger. Survival instincts starts to kick in hard when you have time to stop yourself.

I've had thoughts before that if I had a gun within easy access I almost certainly would have tried to use it on myself before, and it makes me very grateful nowadays that I didn't and don't.

Anyone saying that ease of access doesn't encourage suicide is wrong. A quick and easy way out is a lot easier to rationalise than a slow and difficult way out.

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u/_BeerAndCheese_ May 27 '22

Exactly.

I hope you're in a better place now. I know that it's a battle every single day, some days worse than others.

I have a lot of personal struggles as well. A few days before this latest tragedy, I was doing yardwork. The older lady next door was out and about, we ended up talking for a couple hours. About how bad everything is getting. But, in talking to her, despite the depressing topic, it helps me a lot. There's still tons of genuinely kind, caring people out there. It's just so easy to isolate. And it's a big deal. It's something I have to always be on guard for. I'm bad at helping myself, so in order to reach out, I have to remind myself that it's helpful to those I reach out to, too.

Anyway, rambling. I hope you have someone to reach out to as well, even if it's just a kind older lady next door that needs help moving things from time to time.

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u/N0rTh3Fi5t May 27 '22 Helpful

Why are assault and self harm the same category?

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u/maniacaljoker May 27 '22

This is the real question. Categorically different, to say the least.

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u/si3rra_7 May 27 '22

also guns include homicide and suicide. weird

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u/PoopIsAlwaysSunny May 27 '22

I was wondering if that's the case. Because making suicide by gun included in guns category rather than suicide seems disingenuous.

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u/abn1304 May 27 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Eureka!

Particularly when two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides, and almost a quarter of the remainder are justified homicides. Only a small portion are accidental. The overwhelming majority of gun deaths in children are among teenagers 14-17.

OP has an agenda alright.

Sources: FBI Uniform Crime Reports and CDC FastStats

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u/trafficnab May 27 '22

I'm also questioning the division of automobile accidents and "accidental injury" to get shooting on top

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u/asdfghjklqwertyh May 28 '22

Splitting health issues into 3 categories is a joke

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u/abn1304 May 28 '22

OP is arbitrarily splitting columns, including multiple different categories of data (e.g. mechanism of injury vs why the injury happened) and arbitrarily combining others. This is one of the most transparent attempts at propaganda I've seen since the shooting, and that includes the Washington Post columnist who claimed that the AR-15 was developed for Nazi infantry use. (For those not familiar, the AR-15 wasn't developed until 1956, and it was developed by a California-based US defense contractor that produced aircraft in WW2 for the US military.)

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u/Panzerkatzen May 28 '22

Can I please see that article? I know WaPo can say some stupid shit but I gotta see this.

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u/deertinta May 27 '22

Particularly when two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides, and almost a quarter of the remainder are justified homicides

Is this data for children (1-17)? What are justified homicides?

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u/abn1304 May 27 '22

This is data for all homicides. Doesn't change much for children. Accidental deaths make up a higher percentage, justified homicides are vanishingly rare, but children are more likely to drown in the bathtub than die an accidental death by firearm. It's a proportionally tiny number of deaths. No less tragic, but proportionally tiny, especially in comparison to illness and motor vehicle deaths.

A justified homicide is a lawful killing, such as a defensive gun use. Police shootings make up the majority of justified homicides, but not all of them.

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u/Aberrationism May 27 '22

Do you have a link to this source?

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u/FelledWolf May 27 '22

My guy, this graph is for child deaths. 11-17 is still a child, why should an 11-17 year old have access to a firearm?

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u/CorruptedFlame May 27 '22

To be fair suicide statistics in places without gun deaths are also much lower so its not as much of an agenda as you suggest. Tldr; making it easier to kill yourself or others makes it more likely to happen.

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u/ManofWordsMany May 27 '22

14-17 aren't children in your books?

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u/LSUMath May 27 '22

I think the point is that a suicide is more likely to be successful if there is access to a gun?

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u/Therefor3 May 27 '22

This right here. The graph is definitely trying to portray it as homicide kills with guns, but that's not the case.

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u/dashansel May 27 '22

Looks like this data also decided to remove the drug overdose data. Which spiked in parallel with guns in 2019 . Which is the most interesting to me

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

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u/ChainringCalf May 27 '22

And what about the overlap? Assault with guns? Self harm with guns? And accidental shootings?

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u/Steven__hawking May 27 '22

OP put all those in “guns” because they wanted that headline.

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u/lains-experiment May 27 '22

Also illness is split into 3

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u/imwatchingyou-_- May 27 '22

Because it pads the numbers

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u/qshak86 May 27 '22

What changed in 2013?

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u/dewayneestes May 27 '22

And why the hell are car crashes also going up??

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u/DarreToBe OC: 2 May 27 '22

One part of this is pedestrian deaths in the US declining for decades until 2009 when the trend sharply reversed and pedestrian deaths skyrocket every year now. Part of this is a matching skyrocketing share of vehicles on the roads being larger SUVs, vans and trucks, which have increased pedestrian fatality rates. I can't tell you how big a portion of the increase has been pedestrian vs passenger deaths but I would be interested in learning that myself if somebody else knows.

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u/ACharmedLife May 27 '22

In Boston Massachusetts more pedestrians die than motorists.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 edited Jun 01 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/tessthismess May 27 '22

The "yet" was good.

But also beyond improvements to things like safety the very thing DarreToBe was mentioning matters. Vehicles have, over time, gotten much larger. My understanding is: vehicle size is the number one determinant of vehicle safety (moreso than any features within the vehicle). And there's been kind of an arms race over time (people in larger vehicles fair better in crashes, so people get larger vehicles which leads to people in smaller vehicles being less safe so the trend circles). That might be anecdotal.

But regardless, vehicles being bigger means when a car hits a person the person is more likely to die.

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u/oblio- May 27 '22

It's not just car sizes, regarding safety features. I've checked the UK and fatalities continue to drop. Your cars in the US are just too big. They're probably only marginally safer for drivers than smaller European cars with equivalent safety features and a ton more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, bikers, people in older cars, just because they're so big and heavy.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '22

we tell ourselves it's safer, but in most cases, im genuinely convinced ppl just wanna feel powerful in the way that a 6yr old does, by having the extra super duper big-boy vroomy toy and bragging about it to everyone in class

i say this as someone who lives in the US and deals with these fuckin lifted f150 people all the time

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u/youtub_chill May 27 '22

Bigger cars are not actually safer though they are more likely to roll over in an accident. They create an illusion of safety but in many ways they are more dangerous.

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u/Zhirrzh May 27 '22

The makers of pedestrians really need to innovate more, it's 2022. Any sign of disruptors entering that market?

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u/ChebyshevsBeard May 27 '22

We're talking about the US here. I'm pretty sure pedestrians just need guns. Or rocket launchers. I think I'd probably feel safer walking around a car-infested city with a rocket launcher. The only thing that can stop a bad SUV is a good pedestrian with a bazooka, afterall.

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u/MR___SLAVE May 27 '22

The makers of pedestrians really need to innovate more

Get them in touch with Volvo.

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u/SurgeonTaco May 27 '22

this is what the r/fuckcars sub is dedicated to. Providing safe public transport for all people so that people don't have to get in a car as their only option.

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u/TheByzantineEmpire May 27 '22

It’s not really pedestrians but the infrastructure for them that is lacking/not evolving. Pedestrian infrastructure is horrendous in the US. Some roads are straight up death traps compared to school zones in other countries.

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u/Reagalan May 27 '22

pedestrian infrastructure is routinely subordinated to car infrastructure

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u/8spd May 27 '22

It's not just that the safety of cars is going up. Many of the design decisions of auto makers actively lowers the safety of those outside the vehicle. The thickness of the A-pillar is a big one, creating a larger blind spot in a vital location. But the increasing size of vehicles, and larger blind spots in general, is a factor too.

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u/Ropes4u May 27 '22

And we generally don’t do anything to the people killing pedestrians or cyclists.

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u/pgnshgn May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

This is exactly it; I work in an industry that looks at this data. I can't share my data without getting fired, but the rough overview of it is:

An SUV is occupant is roughly 11% less likely to die in a multi-vehicle crash. They're also 14% more likely to crash and more than 90% more likely to injure anyone they hit (you can see how that math is less than favorable...)

It's especially appalling because most modern SUVs are nothing more a literal copy paste job of automaker's existing car, just jacked up and with some plastic cladding to look tough. They're functionally no more useful than a car, but way more deadly.

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u/sjmahoney May 27 '22

They're functionally no more useful than a car, but way more deadly.

They also pollute more and consume more gas😀

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u/pgnshgn May 27 '22

Yep. And it gets even worse - because of how the US counts fuel efficiency, it doesn't matter. Or more accurately, they pollute "less" from a regulatory standpoint because the requirements for a "light truck" are lower. So more gas, more pollution, but the government says they're better for the environment anyway.

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u/Business_Downstairs May 27 '22

2009 is when smartphones started to really take off.

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u/mr_ji May 27 '22

I'd really like to see some research on this because I have a strong suspicion this is the primary contributing factor. At least half of the people I see driving are distracted, and it's usually with them glancing into their lap at something.

I also see way too many pedestrians with AirPods in and not even glancing to the sides in crosswalks.

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u/Killstadogg May 27 '22

Pretty sure it's from the proliferation of smart phones.

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u/Joe_Jeep May 27 '22

Partly. But car ls have also become SUVs and pickups which are far, far more dangerous to pedestrians

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u/xXxDickBonerz69xXx May 27 '22

Yup and due to rollover standards they have thicker pillars and are harder to see out of.

Its a mix of a few different factors.

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u/Emilyisoutnow May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

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u/TheSardonicCrayon May 27 '22

There was less overall accidents (and maybe per miles driven, not sure), but the severity of accidents was higher because of the change in driving behavior. As your link pointed out, there was an increase in the frequency of severe accidents per miles driven.

Basically, remove a ton of the fender benders and add more high speed crashes per mile driven.

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u/Emilyisoutnow May 27 '22

Good catch, I interpreted what I read wrong, Same study has some data on types and number of crashes

Crash Severity 2019 2020 Change % Change
Total Police-Reported Crashes 6,756,084 5,250,837 -1,505,247 -22%*
Fatal Crashes 33,487 35,766 +2,279 +6.8%
Non-Fatal Crashes 6,722,597 5,215,071 -1,507,526 -22%*
Injury Crashes 1,916,344 1,593,390 -322,954 -17%*
Property-Damage-Only Crashes 4,806,253 3,621,681 -1,184,572 -25%*

Sources: FARS 2019 Final File, 2020 ARF; CRSS 2019-2020
These estimates are statistically significant at the α=.05 level of significance.*
Note: Fatal crash counts are not tested for statistical significance because they are a census.

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u/RestartingMyLife0918 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

And since we are talking children, well they weren't in school so they had more of a chance to be in a car.

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u/hallese May 27 '22

Bingo. My son was a senior and he was on the road constantly in the spring of 2020, it was the only freedom and privacy he could get, and he has the tickets to backup the statistics.

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u/theryman May 27 '22

Yea when I saw the headline I assumed a drop in driving in 2020 lead to a decrease in auto deaths which caused the new leader.

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u/SonnySwanson May 27 '22

In our area, 2020 was one of the deadliest times to be on the road.

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u/ignisnex May 27 '22

"Look! Basically no traffic! I can drive like it's a fucking race track now!"

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u/vikinghockey10 May 27 '22

Yup.

Same happens with speed limits on local roads. Best way to reduce the speed people drive isn't to add a sign with a lower number. It's to add a median and reduce the width. But local governments balk at the cost of that and want to look like they did something.

Driving deaths will go up if you give people the room to drive recklessly.

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u/Oldcadillac May 27 '22

Digging into road fatality statistics defies simple explanations. Despite decades of education/public awareness campaigns, over one quarter of road fatalities in the US involve intoxication.

Edit: source

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u/goog1e May 27 '22

I think it's a pretty simple explanation. There's barely any enforcement of anything but parking tickets/tows. (And camera tickets)

I can't remember the last time I saw someone get pulled over. I occasionally see cops with a stop in progress on the side of the road, but every single day I see multiple extremely reckless drivers and zero get pulled over. I'm talking people pulling into the shoulder to pass at 80mph. Every single day.

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u/pgnshgn May 27 '22

I work for a company that uses data to improve transport efficiency and safety. Honestly, speeding enforcement is less valuable than you might think. It's basically a non-factor in accident rate (until you get idiots weaving like you said, that is a significant factor. Relative speed is much more important than absolute).

You want to hit the big ticket items? Drunk driving, distracted driving, red light runners. Those 3 alone account nearly 2/3 of all road deaths. Switch stop signs and low volume lights for roundabouts and you'll knock out another significant chunk of fatalities (you won't reduce total accidents much, but you'll trade a massive number of severe accidents for fender benders)

From there, get people to spread out. Distance between cars (front/back and side to side) is a significant factor. Enact strong left lane laws and enforce them. Enforce tailgating laws.

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u/ritaPitaMeterMaid May 27 '22

It still isn't clear but 2020 was one of the worst year for automobile incidents, ever. I don't say accidents because some of that shit was road rage.

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u/pM-me_your_Triggers May 27 '22

In the US, 2020 was the deadliest year since 2007 and 2021 was even worse (although slightly lower when normalized for passenger miles)

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u/ACharmedLife May 27 '22

The lack of traffic allowed speeders.

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u/PataBread May 27 '22

Hey from someone who's very into reducing car dependency. Maybe worth checking out the sub r/fuckcars

But a huge reason has to do with vehicle size and weight. More and more people are choosing suv's and trucks, and those are getting MUCH bigger

The new EV Hummer is over 9000 lbs. And chevys Silverado is literally about the size of sherman tanks from WW2.

These massive vehicles are causing pedestrian/cyclist deaths, along with drivers staying in more conventional car sizes to die more when struck.

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u/loggic May 27 '22

Deaths from car crashes.

I am curious how many of these deaths wouldn't have happened at all if the hospital system hadn't been so strained.

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u/mr_ji May 27 '22

Oh, that's another good dimension to consider!

This is why all of the social science posts on the /r/science sub concluding that you're more likely to be a fascist if you eat red meat make me shake my head. There are always too many factors to pin down any firm causation.

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u/ThatHairyGingerGuy May 27 '22

Personal Trucks have been getting bigger and much less safe for pedestrians. Most pickups nowadays you couldn't see a child crossing in front or behind even slightly.

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u/MyohMy1137 May 27 '22

Everyone is driving suvs and trucks now. Crashes are so much worse. Pedestrians and cyclists are being killed more often due to the blind spots increasing in size. Our roads are getting more crowded each year as population increases but the infrastructure can’t keep up.

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u/53bvo May 27 '22

People on their phone behind the wheel

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u/spinbutton May 27 '22

In my town people have been driving super fast like nuts for the past few years. I think they got used to fewer cars on their routes and sped up. But now that the traffic is back to normal they haven't reduced their speed.

Also...flipping phones.

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u/Evolutiondd May 27 '22

Social media smart phones internet

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u/LadyDiscoParts May 27 '22

Curse of December 21, 2012

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u/SnowflowerSixtyFour May 27 '22

Sandy Hook happened in mid December of 2012. Maybe that is related?

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u/Wjbskinsfan May 27 '22

We would expect these figures to vary plus or minus 6% per year based on random chance alone. So it’s likely nothing happened. Data is beautiful but you have to be careful not to miss read the tea leaves.

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u/newnamesam May 27 '22

What's the difference between assault, self-harm, accidental injury, and guns in this graph?

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u/WhaleSmacker17 May 27 '22

This is probably the most important question. If you shoot yourself is that self harm, guns or both? If someone shoots you is that assault, guns or both? If guns are mutilually exclusive with either of those then you're diminishing the the number of incidences in both categories in favor of "guns".

It's like if someone separated out "rope" from public executions and suicides in the 1800s.

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u/Plain_Bread May 27 '22

If guns are mutilually exclusive with either of those then you're diminishing the the number of incidences in both categories in favor of "guns".

That's exactly what OP did.

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u/Jrsplays May 27 '22

In the graph, there's not. That's intentional to make things look bleaker than they actually are.

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u/go_49ers_place May 27 '22

Why is "assault" grouped with "self harm"?

Also, would "self harm with a gun" be under "guns" or "self harm"?

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u/JTgdawg22 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Yes - they have purposefully manipulated the data to push agenda as per usual. Gun deaths are and have always been largely suicides in every year recorded. Suicides are included in gun deaths and if you removed those, it would likely be the lowest of the killers.

They also lump assault and self-harm.

Clear manipulation.

Edit:

To explain this further as many are asking:

Having a category of "Self-harm" insinuates (and is reflective of) suicide. Having a separate category in which the data label is "Guns" implies that because there is already a suicide category, all deaths associated with "Guns" must be homocidal or incidental in nature.This overexagerates the true nature of the situation. The question should be posed, why seperate the categories and label them the way they did outside of pushing a false narrative?

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u/shrubs311 May 27 '22

same with all the posts talking about mass shootings where a large portion are due to gang violence, and not "random" shootings of innocent people for no reason.

which is why i think school shootings are a much more important statistic than something like gun deaths or mass shootings, but having the context of those stats is of course meaningful.

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u/supafly_ May 27 '22

If we had statistics from someone who was actually interested in the truth we might stand a chance of figuring out how to stop them. Instead it's turned into guns vs no guns and so continues the death of nuance in the world today.

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u/shrubs311 May 27 '22

agreed. dishonest data doesn't help anyone trying to solve these issues...it just creates fear mongering and emotional reactions

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u/HeirToGallifrey May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who manipulate data to make school shootings look worse than they are. I remember someone posted a website a while back that claimed to record all school shootings in America, and I looked at the data to see what it was actually saying. They defined school shooting as "any firearm discharge in or near a school or bullet impact in/near a school". So if some arsehole is screwing around with a gun in their house and accidentally fires it into the wall or shoots the wall of a school through his window, that counts as a school shooting. There's no requirement of people being injured, much less killed.

I remember that pissing me off, because I absolutely hated to have to argue that it wasn't as bad as they were claiming. I think the situation as it exists is bad enough—we don't need to add misrepresenting data into it, since that'll just make the whole thing look invalidated when people figure it out.

Edit: the comment I mentioned

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u/plaidmantydai May 27 '22

PhD scientist here. Unfortunately most of the posts on this sub can accurately be posted to “dataismisleading” instead.

This article has an interesting summary on this.

Since 1966, there have been 13 shootings at a school in which 3+ people were shot and killed. This definition eliminates one-off instances and focuses on the salient type of event at hand. All of these were tragedies, but the infrequency of these events makes it impossible to come up with some easy narrative and corresponding solution.

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u/holytriplem OC: 1 May 27 '22

I'm curious as to what caused the massive decrease in deaths from car crashes?

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u/frizbplaya May 27 '22

My educated guess is better and more convenient car seats. The LATCH system for securing car seats was made mandatory in 2002 but it takes a few years before the majority of cars on the road include it. Getting everyone to put car seats in the back seat instead of the front seat slowly became accepted somewhere in the 2000s. Easier systems for popping a car seat into a permanent base.

Sadly, there are/were a lot of preventable deaths from just not securing kids at all or doing it wrong. I think safely securing kids has gotten better, more normal, and more accepted.

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u/thunderpack7 May 27 '22

This probably has a lot to do with it, but also newer cars are MUCH safer now than they were even 10-20 years ago. Innovations in crumple zone design, requiring more airbags, and a variety of driver assistance features such as stability control and blind spot detection. Even more modern features such as automatic braking in "crash prevention" systems also contribute. Better tires, stricter safety standards... It goes on and on.

As the older cars are taken off the road and replaced by newer ones these numbers will continue to go down

Idk why, but 2020 was a bad year for car crashes. My personal observation was fewer people on the road (which makes me think it should go down) but then again I live in a city that sees a TON of tourists, and tourism suffered during COVID shutdowns and restrictions.

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u/NextWhiteDeath May 27 '22

The increase is related to emptier roads. People see that it is a clear road so they drive faster. If anyone pulls out they have less time to stop. This is an example but it is the same in diffrent sittuations as well. The safe people percieve the road the faster they will go and in crash situations a crash will be more likely.
Also US road design pushes up the percieved safety of the road and increases the speed. Some cities are starting to put in small curbs and partially blocking the view of the road. These small limits on vision makes people drive slower as they can't see the road and judge it to be less safe. Which makes them drive slower. While in reality this makes the road safer as the speeds go down and it is more likely to stop in time.

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u/theryman May 27 '22

Getting everyone to put car seats in the back seat instead of the front seat slowly became accepted somewhere in the 2000s.

You see this in the Simpsons, where Maggie goes from always being in the front to always being in the back sometime in the mid 2000s.

I think she's still in the front in the intro though.

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u/heresacorrection OC: 24 May 27 '22

Probably safer cars, you can see that the drop is even more massive than shown here as I didn't go all the way back to 2000:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

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u/Terebo04 May 27 '22

safer for the people inside, not the people outside the car. Are people outside cars involved in crashes also counted in this stat?

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u/Swedishfish120 May 27 '22

I would assume that people outside the car are not counted in that figure. In the US, automobile safety ratings are determined exclusively by driver/passenger safety tests - we have no equivalent to the pedestrian impact tests required in many other countries.

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u/Kazen_Orilg May 27 '22

The entire history of the car in the US is about not giving a shit about people outside the car.

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u/Tornagh May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

How are guns a separate line than “self-harm”, aren’t most gun death actually suicides?

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u/Sweet_d1029 May 27 '22

This is informative came out n Feb this year: “ Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400).”

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/RedditIsPeople May 27 '22

From your article, the suicide rate of boys dropped significantly in Canada over the past thirty years, while the suicide rate for girls increased. Boys are much more likely to use firearms as their method of suicide than girls. It seems likely that reduced access to firearms has reduced the suicide rate rather than socioeconomic trends.

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u/ltidball May 27 '22

My country (Sri Lanka) had one of the world's highest suicide rates up until recently and the only change that reduced suicides by 70% was regulations on the chemicals that people were using to kill themselves. There can be a correlation between access to items that people can commit suicide with and suicide rate.

Source

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u/jmlinden7 OC: 1 May 27 '22

Also why is self-harm lumped in with assault? Aren't those two completely different?

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u/cosmicosmo4 OC: 1 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Because the categories are deliberately manipulated by the OP in a way to highlight gun deaths, as per the OP's own explanation.

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u/moush May 27 '22

Also includes all people under 19, including gang violence which makes up the vast majority.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/-snuggle May 27 '22 This

This is probably the article where OP has the graph from, with the full sources.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/wingsnut25 May 27 '22

OP's Chart also suggest that it only includes Children under 17.

Did OP mislabel the graph? I have seen several articles lately stating the same conclusion as OP. And there titles were misleading saying Children, but at least in the article they disclosed they included 18 and 19 year olds.

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u/SHANE523 May 27 '22

How is guns separate from Assault/Self-Harm?

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u/8_bw May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22 Eureka!

Because OP wants to make a point rather than present an unmanipulated and anywhere near "beautiful" set of data

I, like a lot of people here, probably agree with OP on the point they are trying to make but this has no business being in this subreddit

By OPs logic a person could also lump congenital disease, cancer, and nervous system diseases together to make them number one and call the post "Inadequate Healthcare is the Leading Cause of Death for Children in the US"

Might as well be r/propaganda

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u/[deleted] May 28 '22

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u/trowaway7342 May 27 '22

Why are assault and self-harm grouped together? Those are two totally separate things.

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u/InspectorG-007 May 27 '22

I wonder if there was an event in 2020 that encouraged youth to go out and to crazy things while the police backed away?

No differentiation between firearm use in homicides and suicides? Cross-referenced with Anti-Depressant usage among kids?

No mention of Overdose deaths, also on the rise? or is that lumped in with 'accidental injury' ?

If there were less Assault/Self Harm, would that effect 'Guns'?

Why is the graph started at 2008? We've been in a nice downtrend since 1993(gang violence?)https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

The US has a population of about 330 Million. Anyone have the numbers? How much of the increase between what looks like 1700 to 2300 is margin error in relation to 330,000,000?

What are we gonna do also, about the increase in Automobile Crashes? I would assume cell phone related and Boomer age-related.

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u/chainer49 May 27 '22

Really misleading to not show the baseline as not zero. without paying more attention it looks like accidents are a negligible cause of death, but it's just that the baseline is 500, not 0.

Insane how much gun deaths have changed in such a short time period.

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u/Poor__cow May 27 '22

Gun deaths are so high in this chart because they’re combined with gun suicides despite there being a separate “self harm” category.

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u/chainer49 May 27 '22

the Self-harm category is also oddly bundled with assault. Those are not the same thing, so that's a weird combo. All in all, this chart is frustratingly odd.

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u/TheNoobtologist May 27 '22

It should also be normalized per population, eg deaths per 100,000 people.

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u/Meister_Michael May 27 '22

I would not exactly call this beautiful, but it is certainly interesting to see.

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u/Phemto_B May 27 '22

I never thought I'd say this, but let's make cancer number 1.

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u/RETAW57 May 27 '22

Monkeys paw grants the wish and children now have a 1 in 50 chance of getting cancer.

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u/Willy_K May 27 '22

That is good, as of now the number are worse then 1 in 4 (over a lifetime).

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u/DevilsWelshAdvocate May 27 '22

Im under the impression (not 100% on this) that this statistic ignores key factors such as people dying of other means earlier. https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/cancer-stats-explained/our-calculations-explained#heading-Eight

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u/Phemto_B May 27 '22

God damned monkey paw!

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u/Gbrusse May 27 '22

And as an extra bonus, you now have monkey pox

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u/nonamenumber3 May 27 '22

So this will be removed for misinformation right? Right?!

I see more than enough top comments calling out how flawed this "beautiful" chart is.

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u/mrpolotoyou May 27 '22

I agree. If you compare the numbers to the actually cdc website they don’t come close to adding up.

cdc wonder

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u/welcometooceania May 27 '22

The Ministry of Truth finds this post to be "mostly true". Please carry on citizen.

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u/RepresentativeWish95 May 27 '22

I love how assault and self harm are lumped together to hide the mental health crisis

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u/KittenKoder May 27 '22

Also an attempt to inflate the numbers so it would overpass the gun deaths. Statistics are a dirty job.

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u/TheBerryTime May 27 '22

It’s also misleading since most of those gun deaths are self harm (suicide)

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u/tsacian May 27 '22

Its also misleading because the cdc source of the data was manipulated to include 18 year olds, which most would not count as children. Gotta pad the stats for a gun post on reddit I suppose.

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u/RepresentativeWish95 May 27 '22

I understand the basic point, but assault and self harm are very different, might as well lump car crashes and medical accidents together

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u/Simcom May 27 '22

So "self harm" includes suicides by other methods and "guns" includes suicide by firearm? Are you purposely trying to mislead people...? Because that's what it seems like.

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u/Evolutiondd May 27 '22

Social media and the internet really started becoming apart of our lives from 2013 onwards.

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u/Siikamies May 27 '22

How many of them are suicides?

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u/-snuggle May 27 '22

That data is visualized in the appendix of the study OP has the data from: About a third are suicide, about two thirds are homicide, the number of accidents and unclear cases is comparatively neglible.

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u/BoomThroatPunch May 27 '22

Please note that OP is combining murder, suicide and accidents into one category which is extremely dishonest.

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u/v3ritas1989 May 27 '22

For those that asked themselves the same question.

"How many children died through covid"

here the CDC lists covid death by age group

0-4 y/o: 431 dead

5-18 y/o: 809 dead

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u/DrChillChad May 27 '22

OP put all suicides by firearm in the gun death category. This chart is purposefully misleading.

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u/Grothus May 27 '22

I'd like to see this data back further. The assault weapon ban in the US expired in 2004. Curious what the data looked like under it.

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u/LesterBallard19 May 27 '22

I was a teachers assistant in high school for a 7th grade history class. One of our students was killed when a rifle went off in her dad's truck in a negligent discharge. The entire school was floored. Just like that she was gone.

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u/Left4DayZ1 May 27 '22

I know the point of this post is to suggest that mass shootings are the cause for the incredible increase, but the majority of these deaths are occurring due to gang-related violence in impoverished, crime ridden areas.

I'm not suggesting we don't pay attention to the mass shooting epidemic. I'm asking why nobody is talking about the people in those neighborhoods who are also losing their babies daily.

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u/Poor__cow May 27 '22

Because it doesn’t make for a sexy and flashy headline /: you’re right though

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u/ChuckStone May 27 '22

There's a bizarre correlation between automobile crashes and guns

They start rising at the same time and start falling at the same time (albeit at different rates)

Clearly, something happened on 2013/14 and in 2018/19 that has had an effect on both.

Could it be more related to trends in trauma care?

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