r/antiwork 13d ago Helpful 7 Wholesome 5 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Silver 3

It's Made up.

Post image
81.0k Upvotes

1.6k

u/NortiusMaximis 13d ago

The salaries and benefit packages of CEOs of publicly traded companies salaries are public information, available in the companies’ annual reports. Funnily enough CEOs use this information to very successfully leverage up their own incomes.

402

u/WeeklyInevitabley 13d ago

I read up on at-will employment in my state (New Hampshire) and learned an employee who is union or contracted cannot be fired at will. True?

315

u/EssentialWorkerOnO 13d ago

Contact a union in your area and ask to confirm, but I believe that’s right. In order to fire a union worker you must have legitimate cause.

200

u/Picker-Rick 13d ago

True. And you are entitled to a union representative or union appointed lawyer at all meetings with your manager.

92

u/Ok-Principle-3754 13d ago Helpful

It's called Weingarten Rights. Similiar to requesting an attorney if you're being questioned by police. If management fails to provide you time to contact a union rep, they can be fined/sued, etc.

45

u/ayparesa 13d ago

ALWAYS ask for your union rep if you are getting “in trouble”.

70

u/Picker-Rick 13d ago

Even if you're not. Ask for a union rep.

I remember one guy who they gave a "promotion" to and it technically made him non-union and they fired him the next week.

A union rep won't necessarily stop that, but they will be more in tune with things like "why are you giving him a huge raise to a position they didn't apply for?" Whereas you are more likely to be excited about the money and sign things you probably shouldn't.

→ More replies

75

u/lmkwe 13d ago

I was a teamster ups driver (just quit on Thursday actually) and had free legal services, the only thing that wasn't covered were cases against the employer.

Always have a union rep present when dealing with management though! Even for little things. The union/company relationship is always weird, cover your ass that's what they're there for.

42

u/NeedaSaviorHere 13d ago

If its for a small thing and you have no proof of what went down in the meeting, they can lie and say anything they want about the meeting and make it a huge thing. Cover your ass

→ More replies

16

u/russtuna 13d ago

Aren't there other perks? I recall getting a small scholarship from the teamsters, just because my dad was a member. Is that still a thing?

12

u/lmkwe 12d ago

Idk if the scholarship is still a thing but there is tuition reimbursement. There are a lot of good benefits though

6

u/SoftTacoSupremacist 12d ago

Quality insurance at reasonable prices. Pensions.

→ More replies
→ More replies

74

u/bigtime_porgrammer 13d ago

Based on my extensive research watching cop shows on tv, this is correct

7

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Impossible-Cod-3946 12d ago

The account I'm replying to is a karma bot run by someone who will link scams once the account gets enough karma.

Their comment is copied and pasted from another user in this thread.

Report -> Spam -> Harmful Bot

16

u/genericsalutation 12d ago

"I'm invoking my Weingarten rights"

21

u/Picker-Rick 12d ago

It's usually just easier to say I'd like my union rep present... But sure.

5

u/cumfarts 13d ago

You're to entitled a union steward at any disciplinary investigation. They don't have to wait for your lawyer to show up before they tell you to move some boxes.

7

u/Picker-Rick 13d ago

Since when is "telling you to move some boxes" considered a "meeting with your manager"?

But yes. ANY interaction with management can involve a union rep. Especially if workplace safety or working conditions are involved.

If those boxes are too heavy to be safely moved, or are in an unsafe to enter location... You have the right to have a union rep weigh in on the matter.

→ More replies

18

u/InterestingClass3106 12d ago

Mostly right. In order to fire a Union member you have to have "cause" as it is specifically defined in the labor agreement signed by said union employee and the employer.

Even with cause, 90+% of the time it will go to some sort of arbitration between union reps and management and the employee will be returned to duty. Maybe with some sort of prohibition, maybe not.

This is generally one of the sticking/talking points of anti union folks.

5

u/Electrical_Engineer0 12d ago

Work with a union guy that has been employed for 15 years but only has hours for 8 years. Gets doctors notes and flips houses when he’s off on leave. Requests a written procedure for any job (think sweeping the floor or wiping a gauge) and cites safety or lack of procedure for not doing anything. He’s such a scumbag even the union reps are done with him. Finally going to be able to fire him after two years of documenting his games. It has soured me on the union quite a bit.

6

u/InterestingClass3106 12d ago

I completely agree. But you have to remember that a bad apple will ruin any batch, not just a union batch :-)

I'm actually in the middle of a very acrimonious labor contract renewal at my job BECAUSE of one bad actor that took the same leverage you mentioned above. So now management is attempting to paint everyone with that same brush and demanding concessions. In this job market.

Needless to say, it isn't going well.

Im super pro union, but am not so blind as to not see the inherit faults that exist within.

4

u/No_Shift_Buckwheat 12d ago

It is mine. I get unions and the benefits but...I worked for the U.S.A. for a while and they had an employee that constantly verbally assaulted people and was rude/ mean. Never did his work. Took 7 years to fire him and it only happened when he threw a typewriter at my coworkers head and we had witnesses. Thanks union.

→ More replies

17

u/sipes216 13d ago

"Business reduction" is an easy clause.

Union protects you from abuse and actual bullshit, but its not foolproof. If a boas doesnt like you for some reason, he or she can certainly find a reason to split you out. At will means at the will of both sides.

12

u/Weak_Fruit 12d ago

If their cause is business reduction that would prevent them from hiring someone to replace you after they fire you, wouldn't it?

14

u/amanor409 12d ago

It would. When my workplace made some downsizing they had to agree to not hire somebody else and if they brought that position back they had to give the right to first refusal to those who worked that position, and offer a similar job to the people affected.

→ More replies
→ More replies

16

u/hcglns2 13d ago

It can also work both ways. Where I am there are laws regarding notices to resign. <3 months = no notice, < 1 yr = 1 week, more than that 2 weeks. But if you are in a union, you follow your CBA. Most are designed so the company gives you lots of notice and you can give none.

12

u/nemofbaby2014 13d ago

If your job site is union and you join they have to follow the contract the union has with company, I’ve been fired 4 times from Chrysler but I always get my job back with backpay

→ More replies

36

u/sleepydorian (edit this) 13d ago

Not a lawyer but that sounds right to me. Depending on the union contract, there would likely be provisions on when and how union members could be fired. As long as it's an enforceable contract it would supercede at will laws, which I think are just the default in absence of a contract. You could in theory negotiate your own contact preventing at will termination (which a lot of CEOs do, which is why they get huge severance packages to pay them to walk away).

9

u/beldaran1224 13d ago

You are correct that at will only applies in absence of an employment contract. It's why everything you sign for corporations includes stuff like "this is not a guarantee of continued employment" and similar language.

24

u/lufiron 13d ago

It depends on what the contract says because thats how it works. You are collectively bargaining for a mass contracted position where all of the employees are treated equally under the contract and the employer must follow or risk legal consequences.

Source: I am a union worker.

8

u/Spam_Halen_1984 13d ago

I am a union member and this is ,for the most part, true. There are some things that they can fire you for outright, like if you are caught stealing or gross negligence in your job. On almost everything else though, there has to be a paper trail. They can’t just fire you because their fishing buddy needs a job.

6

u/schoolmonky 12d ago

As I understand it, it's not that the law treats unionized workers any different (at least in this regard), it's just that as part of being a union, that union has almost certainly negotiated a contract with the employer that governs things like how workers can be fired.

3

u/SimulatedHumanity 13d ago

At-will applies to non-contracted employment positions.

3

u/Aegi 13d ago

That’s not a true or not true thing, it would depend on many of the specific circumstances.

6

u/sciency_guy 13d ago

If it's like in Germany than yes! It's only possible for really significant breaches of company policy like theft, IP infringement or harassment etc...

→ More replies

12

u/Prior_Arrival_375 13d ago

Which makes sense that it spirals ever upward

10

u/u_hate_america 13d ago

ALWAYS discuss salaries.

They should be posted on the walls.

5

u/1Dive1Breath 13d ago edited 12d ago

All government/ public employees in California have their salaries listed on www.transparentcalifornia.com

All agencies, state, county, city, fire, police, HR, etc. It's all there.

Edited cause links are hard. Still didn't work 🤷‍♂️

Edit #2: thanks to those below who helped with the link formatting.

→ More replies
→ More replies

469

u/DonaldVigups 13d ago

274

u/MonsterJuiced 13d ago

Genuinely wondering how long it will take before they remove this right entirely.

146

u/RevolutionNo4186 13d ago

Considering how ass backwards america is going, probably in a few years

29

u/WhizGidget 13d ago

Considering how ass backwards america is going, probably in a few months.

There, I fixed that for you.

→ More replies

31

u/DevonGr 13d ago

Pretty generous spot there considering states already have anti-abortion legislation drafted ready to drop the day the supreme court releases their new opinion. Things will happen fast IMO

→ More replies
→ More replies

29

u/BigRiverHome 13d ago

Who cares. Follow employer rules the way they follow employment laws, when it is convenient for you.

The only thing I would add is be ethical. Hold yourself to an ethical standard.

33

u/AdjutantStormy 13d ago

My manager told me what they were paying the new driver. Said: ask for a big fuckoff raise or quit, they're paying this dipshit more than you.

I did. Got a 20% raise, after some kerfluffle. I told my manager if he ever left to work in Hell I'd follow.

29

u/ThatisJustNotTrue 13d ago

Which just reaffirms the notion that people don't typically quit bad jobs, they quit bad managers

4

u/shownarou 12d ago

The company I work for is using this line to try and argue they aren’t losing employees because their pay and benefits suck.

3

u/ThatisJustNotTrue 12d ago

Wouldnt that also mean management sucks... so the statement is still true, and thats why theyre losing people.

It doesnt have to just be your middle managers, if whoevers managing the company isnt offering a proper wage thats still bad management.

→ More replies

13

u/BigRiverHome 13d ago

That is an awesome manager. Definitely one I'd follow and try to emulate as well.

Good managers are good for the business AND the employees.

→ More replies

75

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

29

u/Primary_Concept9627 13d ago

Examine your employment offer as well as your employee handbook. You'd be surprised how many employers actually put it in writing that discussing pay would result in suspension or termination.

12

u/jackp0t789 13d ago

Then send that writing to the department of labor

19

u/reply-guy-bot 13d ago

The above comment was stolen from this one elsewhere in this comment section.

It is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user:

Plagiarized Original
Husband can make his own... Husband can make his own...
This is Emily, not Karen. This is Emily, not Karen.
Not to mention that most... Not to mention that most...

beep boop, I'm a bot -|:] It is this bot's opinion that /u/alarmedlawrie should be banned for karma manipulation. Don't feel bad, they are probably a bot too.

Confused? Read the FAQ for info on how I work and why I exist.

→ More replies
→ More replies

13

u/Socratic_DayDreams 13d ago

2024 if they get the votes

9

u/GypsyCamel12 13d ago edited 13d ago

2026.

If not, 2028.

The USA is in a world of collective shit. I'm not excited by the prospect.

EDIT: weird numerical thing happened at posting. Don't ask me, I don't fuckin' know anything.

→ More replies
→ More replies

17

u/DaManWithNoName 13d ago

I have to tell people all the time that it is a federally protected right to discuss your salary and a company cannot legally prevent you from doing so through repercussion or punishment

My coworkers have no idea. Men 40, 50, 60, 70 years old who have no idea and have always been taught it’s wrong

Bruh they’ve been scamming you for decades. fight back. if you had a heart attack from the stress of this job the manager would call you weak and hire someone for more pay the next month

8

u/ParkinsonHandjob 12d ago

Well I had this discussion with some friends.. At least according to that conversation, people don’t always refrain from discussing salary with coworkers solely because they think it’s illegal. Two of my friends felt such a shame for their (perceived) poor salary, that they felt a huge embarrasment to even think discussing salary with colleagues. They felt they would be seen as poor negotiators/workers.

14

u/cheaka12 13d ago

So it says in here if the employee is covered by the act. I clicked on the link and it listed who was covered but then put right to work states. So if you are an at will state your not covered? Or am I getting the whole thing confused?

26

u/TootsNYC 13d ago edited 13d ago

You are covered in at will states as well. Because you are free to negotiate on your own and an Atwill state, and your employer may not intimidate you out of getting information you need to do so

4

u/cheaka12 13d ago

Lol yes I am covered in them that’s for sure. Thank you for the clarification!

19

u/doktorhladnjak 13d ago

At will and right to work are unrelated concepts

At will: employer can fire you for any reason, employee can quit for any reason

Right to work: Union contracts are banned from requiring employees to join a union as a condition of employment

6

u/AdjutantStormy 13d ago

Excellent distinction, thank you

11

u/acydlord 13d ago

Every year when we get our annual review, management at work tells us not to discuss our salary. I walk over to the board that has all the labor laws and OSHA information, make a photocopy of the poster that states the right to discuss wages, and plop a copy on the management desk.

7

u/WiIdCherryPepsi 12d ago

And the next day they were mysteriously fired for 'underperforming'. It had "been coming for months" but "they didn't know when to tell them". All workers discussing wages were also fired for... this... 'underperforming', thus unprotected. When approaching court, the Company hired a million-dollar lawyer, and paid a bribe to the Judge they could not refuse so that the Judge could get a new vacation home. And so the workers lost. Again.

That is how I see most things happen here. Used to have a dude with terminal brain cancer working at Lowe's who was denied Disability 8 times and told not to call again without a lawyer. Because as we famously know terminal brain cancer is a livable condition with next to no complications preventing work (sarcasm).

I gave up.

19

u/Pumpkin_Creepface 13d ago

Yeah that's nice.

Most of us are in 'right to work' states, meaning that if we discuss our wages and our boss doesn't like it, they can fire us for not liking our hairstyle legally.

What we need is major labor reform, and we aren't getting that until we organize a fucktonne better than we are doing now.

5

u/seldom_correct 13d ago

It also means you can’t be forced to continue working until your employer accepts your resignation, which is literally something that used to be legal.

We should start major labor reform by ending propaganda and telling the ENTIRE fucking truth for once.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

96

u/vangoghcuckurself 13d ago

Discuss your salary and don’t buy a ring that’s 3 months income

30

u/cusehoops98 at work 13d ago

Oh it’s 3 months now? That’s convenient.

28

u/TheLastUnicornRider 13d ago

I thought it was 3 years salary -Michael Scott

7

u/vangoghcuckurself 12d ago

there’s a good episode about the diamond trade on the podcast “behind the Bastards”

→ More replies
→ More replies

360

u/Pagan-za 13d ago

I had someone arguing with me that its illegal to discuss salary. I pointed out that our worker rights literally protect it.

She then turned around and said that doesnt matter because its a clause in our contract. She didnt seem to grasp the idea that a contract can say anything TF it likes but cant supersede actual laws.

133

u/GiantSquidd Probably a Jerk 13d ago

I see this all the time in Long Island Audit videos on YouTube. Dude films his public business in publicly accessible places, usually post offices or city halls, and the Karen’s that work there always call the police on him because they have a “building policy” that no recording is allowed even though the US constitution explicitly allows freedom of press rights to any American citizen to film in public. They get shown that they’re wrong, but they just keep insisting that their policies somehow trump the constitution. It’s crazy.

Policy is not law. More people need to realize this. Someone could put up a sign saying that it’s their policy to murder people if they use the wrong colour pen to fill out a form, but that doesn’t mean that they can supersede criminal laws.

22

u/charlie_do_562 12d ago

Reminds me of those trucks that say “not responsible for damage from rocks” while literally hauling unsecured rocks. Just cos they put a sign up doesn’t mean shit, the driver is on the hook for damages

13

u/GiantSquidd Probably a Jerk 12d ago

I think the idea is trying to convince people not to even try to get compensation. Kinda slimy IMO.

5

u/Natck 12d ago

Yeah, shitty as it is, I still heed those signs.

The kind of business that is slimy enough to put a sign like that on a truck is the kind of business that will make trying to get any sort of compensation for damage from them an unbearably difficult and frustrating process.

Even though they don't have the law on their side, I treat them like brightly colored lizards and snakes: best just keep your distance.

→ More replies

30

u/DelfrCorp 13d ago

Hell. Even the Law is often not the Law/Legal. That's one of the reasons why the Higher & Supreme Courts exist. To determine if some Laws are breaking other superseding Constitutional Rights or Laws.

→ More replies
→ More replies

15

u/xthexdeadxonex Eco-Anarchist 13d ago

Wow, that's so ridiculous. That would be like saying "I know I murdered Person#1 but it's ok because I have this contract with Person#2 to murder Person#1." Like that's great, but that's not a legal contract at this point...

→ More replies
→ More replies

145

u/TheJuiceGrenade 13d ago

Be careful, jobs in Texas will fire you for this

145

u/Working_Park4342 13d ago

Raises hand. Yep, I was fired after the boss heard me talking about pay but there is no way you can prove that is the reason for being fired. Same with age discrimination. Unless it is blatant, you can't prove it.

46

u/Cleromanticon 13d ago

At a former employer I was in a management training program where they used anonymized versions of situations other managers had dealt with as part of the training. I was one of the “anonymous” examples, and that’s how I found out my department director wanted to fire me because of my disability, and how my job was saved because said director put her illegal reason in an email, creating a paper trail that made them jumpy about a lawsuit.

The trainers tried to make it seem like it was a lesson about not firing people for being disabled, but they always tacked on a reminder to have these discussions in person and not in writing.

21

u/Long_Pig_Tailor 12d ago

"Remember everyone, it's wrong to fire people for disabilities, but if you're gonna, do it face-to-face and don't take notes about it."

5

u/PlateRepresentative9 13d ago

I'm glad you survived that bitch boss. Tell that story to all the corporate sycophants!

119

u/TheJuiceGrenade 13d ago

“We rarely get fired on paper for what we are being fired for” wise words from an old manager

16

u/Scroof_McBoof 13d ago

Did you report them?

29

u/Working_Park4342 13d ago edited 13d ago

How? I had no proof. At will work states mean you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all, at any time. You serve at the leisure of the king aka boss.

edited: At Will work, I had the wrong verbiage.

13

u/cusehoops98 at work 13d ago

You mean at will states. Right to work has to do with compulsory unionization. Regardless 49/50 states are at will (Montana being the sole exception).

→ More replies

9

u/pflickner 13d ago

Still report it. You may be the first person to do so, but you won’t be the last. Or you could be the final complaint that proved the unprovable

→ More replies

4

u/freudian-flip 13d ago

Most of us that were laid off from Cox Automtive in 2017 were over 40

→ More replies

32

u/filthycasual928 13d ago

I just recently took a pay cut because we were discussing salaries. What they did was make everyone's salary the exact same. So some of us got a raise, and others (like me) got a pay cut. And my manager's exact words were "this is what happens when you guys want to talk to each other about salaries."

18

u/MarylandHusker 13d ago

A company cutting your pay is losing the terms of your employment, if you received specific information that it was because of discussion of pay, that’s a pretty easy lawsuit

20

u/Picker-Rick 13d ago

That's a start. Now you're on an even playing field. Time to raise everyone up. Negotiate. Work as a team and get what you all deserve.

→ More replies

8

u/Dhiox 13d ago

That sounds like retaliation for talking about salaries. They punished those making more so that next time someone gets a raise they won't tell anyone.

7

u/smartidiot23 13d ago

... I mean yeah, allowing underpaid workers to ask for a fairer wage is the idea behind sharing salary sharing. If they want to skip right to equal pay for everyone. Weird that they didn't just say "we are using x criteria to determine wages", as that seems to be an easy solution. It seems like they gave the underpaid ones what they wanted. Either that wage is enough for everyone to stay and be happy, or they shot themselves in the foot by underpaying the best workers.

→ More replies

13

u/Sanguinius0922 13d ago edited 13d ago

note to self NEVER move to fucking Texas

even more reason now

→ More replies

4

u/Chicago1202 13d ago

That’s literally illegal

5

u/TheJuiceGrenade 12d ago

The laws are not meant for corporations

They are meant for workers

→ More replies

3

u/lol143247 13d ago

You know, I’ve heard that that’s actually illegal before. Discussing salaries is how unions are formed, so it’s illegal to do that from what I’ve heard

→ More replies

47

u/ColoTexas90 13d ago

Fuck the rich, and fuck their propaganda.

45

u/LegionRapier61 13d ago

Our company was recently purchased and one of the first things our new owner did was make salaries and pay transparent across the board. We had a meeting where he basically said that he knew everyone had the right to discuss there salaries and probably were so he wanted to clearly outline how our pay structure worked going forward. That way everyone knew why people are paid what they are paid and what they need to do to make it to that level. It’s been really nice, and very clearly defined what things you can do as an individual to get increase your earnings.

9

u/Personal_Might2405 12d ago

That’s what I do with my team. Created a career path, salary is based on title/role, its clearly stated what steps are required to attain the next level. Every role makes the same.

3

u/RobAlso 12d ago

That’s what I like about being in the union I’m in (IATSE Local 600). They have rate cards right their on their website so there’s no confusion on what each position is paid. And since it’s union I don’t have to worry about production trying to pull a fast one on me. Everything is audited and the union makes sure everyone is paid for every single 10th of an hour (6 minutes) they work. I’ve received paychecks months after working on a show where I didn’t even realize I was missing money but the union stepped in and made sure I got paid properly. Fuckin love it.

3

u/postalfizyks 12d ago

One of my favorite benefits of working for the USPS was not having to negotiate for a salary. All union employee pay is set on a time based schedule and all management salaries are in a set range and are very predictable as far as increases go. You can look up any postal workers base pay online.

362

u/LandEnvironmental177 13d ago

In most cases it's actually ILLEGAL for ur employer to punish u for discussing ur wages

134

u/lummist 13d ago

Well yeah, but good luck prosecuting them for it unless the employer is overwhelmingly obvious about it.

149

u/dethmstr 13d ago

Employee: *discusses salary*

Employer: I'm sorry, but you're being fired for underperforming.

83

u/aLLcAPSiNVERSED 13d ago

"I'm sorry, but you're getting fired for a bullshit reason we pulled out of a hat."

39

u/Zealousideal-Set-581 13d ago

Fuck the billionaires and their propaganda.

12

u/GiantSquidd Probably a Jerk 13d ago

Yup. I’m getting reeeeal hungry…

→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/DiamondDelver 13d ago

"Source? My source is I made it the fuck up."

3

u/JypsiCaine 13d ago

"Your face smells funny." - everyone's employer after they discuss wages

→ More replies

10

u/MichiganGeezer 13d ago

Employee: can you show me in this stack of glowing reviews where I underperformed?

9

u/phdoofus 13d ago

My mom worked for the local office of a major international company for about 25 years. Started there when there were a dozen people in the office and it eventually grew to hundreds if not a thousand or more. Literally glowing perf reviews year after year. Then, suddenly, perf review sucked and she was out. The cowards literally couldn't come to her and say 'business needs have changed and we need to cut back'.

5

u/Frekavichk 13d ago

Employer: No, cya.

→ More replies
→ More replies

5

u/Snake115killa 13d ago edited 13d ago

Every state but Montana they can do this....... Edit.

nvm they can still use underperformance as a just reason they just have to provide proof

10

u/phdoofus 13d ago

"You're not a good culture fit"

→ More replies
→ More replies

32

u/Working_Park4342 13d ago

Employee discusses salary, overheard by boss.

Employer: I'm sorry you're being fired for insubordination but I'm not going to tell you what you did. I will tell you that means you can't get unemployment, so don't even try!

Employee files for unemployment. Receives unemployment.

Next job? Share wage info or not? If bosses keep getting away with this...

17

u/Rikuskill 13d ago

The best thing to do if you're fired for undisclosed reasons after discussing wages is to contact the NLRB.

https://www.nlrb.gov/contact-us

If you want proof that legal battles can be won, look at this page:

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices

Pick a regional office near you and you can see cases ongoing and finished, and read up on the cause for the case and the result. Most of the time, employees unfairly terminated receive backpay for the entire time after they were fired.

This link has the resources to report this behavior. It doesn't even need to be firing, if someone in management or higher up in the company dissuades employees from discussing wages--Verbally or via written rule--You are in the green to file a complaint.

https://www.nlrb.gov/cases-decisions

If this applies to you, do it.

4

u/clekas 13d ago

Yeah, it’s illegal, but the fines aren’t high enough for a lot of larger employers to care.

10

u/EssentialWorkerOnO 13d ago

Check your job offer and the employee handbook. You’d be shocked how many actually put it in writing that you’ll be disciplined or terminated for discussing wages.

→ More replies

10

u/Phuk_conservatives 13d ago

The NLRA legally codified the American worker's right to discuss their pay.

→ More replies

5

u/Picker-Rick 13d ago

If you live in the united states, in ALL cases it's illegal to punish you for discussing wages.

→ More replies

22

u/slumlord866 13d ago

It‘s like car dealer telling Hank not to tell others that he „only“ paid sticker price

8

u/Schof26 13d ago

Solid reference.

→ More replies

89

u/sQGNXXnkceeEfhm 13d ago

RICH 👏 PPL 👏 DISCUSS 👏 INCOME

53

u/Bubble_and_squeak 13d ago

THIS. I came from a very working poor Rust Belt background. It was shocking the first time I ate as a guest of a family of "rich" (upper middle class) people. The candor with which they discuss investments, income, tuition, etc. was something I'd never seen before. It was fascinating, but also uncomfortable for me due to conditioning.

I was the only person there that wasn't born into that income bracket. (I was someone's date.)

Other weird side note: An older guy at the table (the dad) was taking about rising tuition costs and essentially said no price was high enough to ensure his daughter had a great education. I smiled, but with six figures of student loans in my name, I thought that this mentality is screwing everyone else. They don't need to worry about it, though. They'll study their privilege like it's an academic exercise while the rest of us live with the consequences.

9

u/uber_neutrino 13d ago

Wait, your family never talked about money growing up? At all?

As for education, the student loan debacle putting people in debt is one of the worst mistakes in history.

10

u/KillahHills10304 13d ago

Not the poster you're responding to, but no. Salary, budgets, cost of living, what bills looked like were NEVER discussed and considered "adult" subjects (until well after I turned 18, and only then because my parents finances were spiraling out of control and they asked my opinion on something). I had to learn about financial stuff all on my own at like 24 because I saw the path my parents setting for me ending in poverty.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

14

u/rusty9000 13d ago

Yeah i was training a new guy at work and quietly asked him how much he was getting paid, and it worked out he was getting $6.50 an hour more then me, I went to the boss the next day and blew up. The next week I had an extra 9 dollars an hour on my pay slip, his excuse was the guy I was training was older than me. Always pays to ask.

→ More replies

14

u/Signature_Artistic 13d ago

I worked for a company for almost 6 years, was one of the most "senior" people in that position. It wasn't until a coworker was complaining about her salary that I realized I was getting screwed. She had been there for less time than I had, and was making almost $5/hour more.

I talked to my boss to try and figure out what the deal was, and they tried to tell me it was because she "had more experience".... Not in our department she didn't.... I trained her.... (she had been in the company for about half the time I had)

Tried to see if I could get a raise, and they offered me $0.50 more. So I put in my two weeks notice and got hired on at a way better company for almost $10/hour more.

Talk to your coworkers and dig into this stuff people. Companies will seriously hire people in at way more than you ever make, and then try to tell you they don't have the funds to equal your pay.

12

u/Monsur_Ausuhnom 13d ago

It's things like this is where we find out why a previous generation is indoctrinated and largely selfish.

36

u/pinzi_peisvogel 13d ago

People recently demanded that the company discloses the salaries and they said they'd not to "in order to reduce stress among employees."

Yeah, no shit. The only one stressed would have been the employer.

→ More replies

12

u/aLLcAPSiNVERSED 13d ago

Only rude if you lord it over others

11

u/no2rdifferent 13d ago

Same with "2-week notice" and signing ANYTHING.

→ More replies

10

u/Euclid1859 13d ago

I've been saying this for years and when I say this opinion to anyone, they're faces scrunch up like I'm saying something horribly offensive. It's interesting how deeply ingrained this belief has been driven into us.

9

u/EpicaIIyAwesome 13d ago

I literally had to look up the law because my dudes mom wholeheartedly believes she will get fired talking about her pay. We argued about it for 30 min and at the end of it, where I showed her the law, she was like 'well I can still be fired and it's not proper'

Daduq you mean lady?

8

u/Euclid1859 13d ago

Ya. Totally!! "It's not proper" is like 100% of what I hear too. Like I know how beliefs develop but it's still hard for me to accept.

5

u/EpicaIIyAwesome 13d ago

I can't get over it ngl. It's like their belief is to not know their rights. This lady is nearing 60 and doesn't know her own rights. Mind blowing to me.

→ More replies
→ More replies

48

u/dannyslag 13d ago

The boomers at my company get paid tens of thousands more, we're taking 20-30k more for the same role while also being exponentially worse at the job and doing far less work. I encourage my team to share their salaries for this exact reason, so they can see how screwed they are and demand more.

21

u/SpaceFmK 13d ago

I bet all those boomers made deals so they would keep being paid more while all you younger folks got shafted.

6

u/atoastedcucumber 12d ago

its mostly due to yearly merit increases, the longer you are there, despite how shitty you are compared to the rest, the more you are paid.

→ More replies
→ More replies

10

u/lynxreader 13d ago

i'm a municipal worker; my pay --- and regular annual seniority increases --- are on a public schedule. i can see no reason other than greed why private employers could not do the same.

→ More replies

9

u/Toomanyacorns 13d ago

A guy at work kept asking another to share his wages, Guy #2 previously worked for a company with a STRICT policy against wage sharing. Guy#1 kept asking every once in a while until #2 finally caved in.

Turns out Guy #1 was hired on at $2 LESS than our starting wage. After an angry threat to higher ups about quitting, he had his wages adjusted.

11

u/Picker-Rick 13d ago

Fun fact, it is considered rude to discuss your salary with people who work other jobs or who don't have any reason to know. For example: At dinner parties.

Discussing wages among employees is a right guaranteed under federal law and doubled up with laws from every state I bothered to check. It's a right and a duty to each other and yourself.

→ More replies

8

u/ClockwerkKaiser 12d ago

I'm a manager at a certain retail chain. Just recently I had this discussion with a few of my crew. One, who has been here for over 2 years, found out that he was making slightly less than another crew mate who just started a couple months ago.

While asking me about it, he apologized for discussing wages. I immeadiately encouraged him to never stop talking about them. If they hadn't discussed it, the problem wouldn't have been known. I followed up by telling my entire crew to freely discuss thier wages, and I noted it all down.

I have no control over thier salary. I'm just a manager. Wages are all handled by our store director and corporate. However, after having that discussion, I was able to bring it to the director, and get the crew member the compensation he deserved as well as some back pay.

ALWAYS DISCUSS WAGES! If ANYONE "above" you tells you otherwise, ask for it in writing, and report them.

8

u/CaptainBayouBilly 13d ago

It’s true that some of the crabs will get mad at the escaping crabs and not the cook.

→ More replies

9

u/dariant3 13d ago

Recently they hired an apprentice for me, we talked wages in the same day he started and turns out they were paying him 6k more than me. Told my manager and they have me a 20% raise. I feel like the new generation really takes this message to heart.

17

u/somethinginmypocket 13d ago edited 12d ago

Discussions about income are colored very differently in different parts of the world. I’m a Luxembourger, where we have the highest GDP in the world (sometimes #2 depending how you slice it), so yes you run into people often who view income discussions as a fact of life and it’s a part of their job to control salaries and spending so it’s a lot more normal and natural to them. I’ve had very blunt and frank questions about income that were asked in an innocent way, not meant to be rude but actually asking as a signal that they care. The questions sound more like “how much do you charge?” “what’s your rate for working?”

Edit: a couple people went on offense about how i phrased this sentiment earlier so I hope this sentiment is better understood 🙌 (saying “some europeans” people read as “all europeans” for some reason?)

4

u/RunFromTheIlluminati 13d ago

In what context were they asking, though?

Were you all discussing working for the same employer/same field? Or was this random small chat in a bar? If it's the latter they really had no business asking.

3

u/somethinginmypocket 13d ago

One was probably wondering how I could afford to rent his airbnb for so long. He was an accountant for an African train company so all his did was talk about money (he was euro + African). The other chick had just got to Paris and was setting up her life and the conversation just got to that question. I mean, I’m sure they’d have been fine if I didn’t want to say. It was out of genuine curiosity.

All that is to say, in countries where the economic field is more level, everyone’s used to talking numbers as just another fact of life.

→ More replies
→ More replies

5

u/CardinalOfNYC 13d ago

Some Europeans will ask how much you make before asking what it is you do, straight up.

Lmao "some Europeans"

I've spent a lot of time in Europe, never once had anyone ask me how much money I make.

4

u/somethinginmypocket 13d ago

I am a Luxembourger, it happens my bro

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/hang-clean 13d ago

At a previous employer we found that I (a man) was being paid more than my colleague (a woman) doing the same job. She would never have found out and got this fixed if we'd been unable to discuss salary.

4

u/Count_Anthony_II 13d ago

So allow me to ask this question: Suppose I signed before I got the job with the contract. "You are forbidden to discuss salary wages with other co-employees, etc.), and of course, I sign it. Seven months later, a colleague and I discuss wages only to find out they make more than I do, and we are doing the same job performance. I go to my manager demanding to be compensated the same pay rate as the co-worker making more than me. I get fired for discussing Wages because of the contract I signed. BUT, the NLRB, which is Federal Law, states that I am allowed to discuss wages .... who would win if I took this to court?

9

u/fuckswitbeavers 13d ago

You would. Fed law supersedes a contract that violates your rights and is against the law

→ More replies

5

u/maciarc 13d ago

It's rude to restrict someone's free speech.

6

u/Wampa9090 13d ago

I just started a new job and found out on day 2 that the guy training me who has been there for 6 years is making less than I am. I am barely making enough to cover my monthly expenses. The job comes with a lot of perks that we’re only pipe dreams at other jobs I’ve been at, but the pay scheme is pretty whack. I, of course, encouraged him to go talk to upper management about it. They told him they “didn’t realize he wasn’t getting paid a similar wage” but “because they didn’t have it on paper they don’t owe him any back pay.” Some S grade bullshit right there

6

u/unique_user43 13d ago

100% Most of my coworkers and I discuss comp, because we know that’s the best way to ensure we’re all getting what we deserve. And especially the best way for women or minorities in the workplace to know if they’re being undervalued.

5

u/UnfortunatelyM3 13d ago

I worked at a smoothie place in Florida that indirectly told us this. I turned around and told EVERYONE what i was making. Turns out it was a full dollar more than some people who had been with them for years. We all got together and demanded equal pay and management started letting people go one by one for various reasons.

5

u/IrateGandhi 13d ago

Dave Chappelle said it best in his stand up during the early 2000s. Middle class and above white dudes will go into great detail about how they have sex. But don't you dare ask any money related questions to them. That's too private and personal to discuss 👀

12

u/Procrastanaseum 13d ago

I found a discrepancy, it says the CEO makes 300x more than I do.

7

u/Eris23_5 13d ago

Well yeah but thats because they're 300x more talented /s

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/Bulky_Lifeguard_1968 13d ago

At a good company, salary ranges are also transparent to the employee population.

While it's good to understand where you stand amongst the salary range and amongst your peers, just also be ready to understand that you may not be paid the highest because you are not as competent as your peers. Whether your peers have more experience, brings different skillsets or even viewed as a much higher performer than you. As long as they stay within the range (for the role) and can justify it through those criteria, it is ok paying you less.

Just wanted to add this comment in there because everyone wants to be more or equal to their peers but sometimes, there are reasons why

5

u/paganfinn 13d ago

Always talk about your salaries!

→ More replies

4

u/Particular-Coyote-38 12d ago

My favorite website: Your Right to Discuss Wages

"Protected conversations about wages may take on many forms, including
having conversations about how much you and your colleagues and managers
make, presenting joint requests concerning pay to your employer;
organizing a union to raise your wages; approaching an outside union for
help in bargaining with your employer over pay; and approaching the
National Labor Relations Board for more information on your rights under
the NLRA.  

When you and another employee have a conversation or communication about
your pay, it is unlawful for your employer to punish or retaliate
against you in any way for having that conversation.  It is also
unlawful for your employer to interrogate you about the conversation,
threaten you for having it, or put you under surveillance for such
conversations.  Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a
work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from
discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the
employer’s permission to have such discussions.  If your employer does
any of these things, a charge may be filed against the employer with the
NLRB. "

Everyone in the USA should read this site and pass it on.

Employers don't want you to be paid fairly for a reason. Keeping us quiet is what has kept pay down.

Speak up for yourself and others! This isn't just for us, it's for future generations too!

4

u/alm423 12d ago

That rule is so ingrained in people, it’s irritating. I started working at my current company 11 years ago. When I started there was someone there that had been there eight years already. Two years after I started another person was hired that worked there eight years. We all have/had the same title and do the same job. I became very close with them. I tried to get them to tell me what they made but they wouldn’t. I wouldn’t ask directly I would just kind of beat around the bush but they wouldn’t budge. I even tried to have the conversation by telling them how much our supervisor made (he told me because he would brag about how much he made and had to do basically nothing for it). I got more information about salaries through the bosses I had them them. My bosses would never tell me exactly what everyone made but would say that our salaries where mostly based on how long we had been there (so I was the second highest paid according to them).

→ More replies

3

u/InevitableAd9683 12d ago

Bitch it's rude to underpay your employees!

5

u/Dull-Ad6071 12d ago

My last employer chastised me for this. I told them it was illegal and they doubled down. Then they let me go (I was only per diem any way because I had gotten a better job, which really pissed them off). I have filed a complaint with NLRB, so hopefully they are investigated!

3

u/Spankydolittle 13d ago

Yup. When I worked in telecom anytime someone was going up for a position on the same level as mine I'd get with them, provide them the interview questions I'd been asked and tell them the exact number to ask for. Never got caught, wouldn't have cared if I did.

3

u/caribulou 12d ago

All salaries should be posted with vacation amounts.

3

u/drluvdisc 12d ago

Just post a sheet of paper or excel doc somewhere and let everyone write their salary/wages on it.

3

u/Tostonn 12d ago

Had an interview recently where the interviewer actually brought up the salary without me asking and let me know what everyone else makes and why.

It was so fucking refreshing not having to play that little game and dance around it. Salary transparency should be the norm. People need to stop acting like it’s some controversial shit. Every single person does their job because they get money from it. Why is it “taboo” to ask people about it?

3

u/NeonsStyle 12d ago

Only by discussing everyones salary can you find out you are underpaid, and only through collective bargaining in a Union can you force companies to pay you more. If you can't do that, then start your own business or accept being a corporate slave!

As someone who has lived more than half a century, and has seen the decline of Unionisation from Corporate pressure on politicians, and the degradation of workers wages and conditions; you are working for peanuts today. The wages you get today for the average worker, and 1970's levels. Get organised and fight back!

3

u/Mizoch8 12d ago

At my work every single one of our salaries are posted within our employee page. It's pretty nice.

3

u/Greenpaw9 12d ago

The owner at my factory tried to say taking about your wage was in breach of the confidentiality agreement. Lol

3

u/marcimochi 12d ago

My manager used to always tell me not to do that. And on top of that she would always vent to me while showing disdain when she found out one of her other employees would ask other employees about their salaries 🤢

3

u/ashimo414141 12d ago

This sub has helped me to gain the courage to be super transparent about my pay. Found out that, since we operate out of three states, hourly teenagers here get paid based on their resident state’s minimum wage, meaning a $3.75 hourly rate discrepancy for kids doing the same job. New GM is a friend of mine and thankfully this got corrected the second I pointed it out to him. They’d be doing this for years tho, it’s so fucked up to think about. I got promoted to supervisor and this sub over the past year helped me to gain courage to make it a point to ask the people I oversee what they’re being paid to ensure they received their yearly raise and that the old GM (still employed as he’s training new GM) isn’t trying to pull a fast one hoping nobody notices

3

u/lonewalker1992 12d ago

People have this so engrained ... been discussing it with my colleagues and they always beat around the bush ... also realized the underpaid ones stick to this even more.

20

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/PhuupingAround 13d ago

No sarcasm: you are the example we all need. If managers worldwide would act like you did…

7

u/ShowLess 13d ago

Is everyone just ignoring that the person (bot?) that posted this accidentally copied the user information off of the comment they stole this from??? Or is this entire conversation just bots that don't notice???

→ More replies

7

u/Excuse_my_GRAMMER 13d ago

So he snitch on you? Smh

→ More replies

11

u/TootsNYC 13d ago

The place that is rude to discuss your salaries in your social life and your family. It is rude to let the amount of money you make affect those relationships, and most people don’t have any actual need to know what their relatives and friends earn. When you need to know, like if you’re considering a career change, then it is appropriate to discuss. Awful lot of people confuse social etiquette with business etiquette. They do things like not wanting to criticize their contractor or not wanting to stand up for themselves as a consumer or employee.

5

u/SpaceFmK 13d ago

It is rude to be affected because of the amount of money a friend makes. If you are bothered because a friend makes more than you, you might want to work on that. Instead you should be happy for your friend. This concept is how we got people to stop talking about pay at work, it is rude to tell a coworker you make more then them.. no it isn't.

3

u/kancitbassdud2 13d ago

It isn't rude to be affected, it's rude to treat them negatively because of it.

4

u/StartingFresh2020 13d ago

Honestly only poor people think this. When I was growing up poor my mom and family would never talk about money. After I graduated and started hanging out with the well off side of my family, they talked about money all the time. I know around what all of my friends and family make now and we always talk about it. It led to several times where someone I knew said that I was being underpaid and they hooked me up with a better paying job.

3

u/aestival 13d ago

Ok= with coworkers, peers in the field.

Gross = at your high school reunion.

3

u/MisterMetal 13d ago

I’ve been taking about/learning/and included family financial discussions for a very long time. Parents talked to me about quite a bit, I knew generally what each made, knew the tax rates my parents were in, knew about the mortgage costs, what tax returns or additional payments my parents, and my brothers had.

It was not a taboo subject with my family. It’s just a fact. That allowed us to learn and understand the world we were getting into. My parents talked about their investments, when losses happened, when their portfolio went up, when and why things would need to change.

It’s a major advantage to be exposed to that.

→ More replies
→ More replies

5

u/DeanWhipper 13d ago

Every big company I've ever worked for has peddled this crap.

I've always called them out for it as well, it's entirely illegal, and making their own internal policy prohibiting it is against the law.

5

u/ModsDontHaveJobs 13d ago

It's literally a protected Federal right. Report anyone who says otherwise to your local Labor Board.

2

u/whoamvv 13d ago

SO many things are just made up for the detriment of the masses. You start looking at all the "unwritten rules" (sometimes written) of society, and questioning why, and you see more and more of this stupid. How about, "Grin and bear it." There's a good one.

→ More replies

2

u/CoupwalObiWan 13d ago

My pay is reported publicly since I work for the government.

2

u/nathanrocks1288 13d ago

Share this on all the retail store subs.

2

u/squishpitcher 13d ago edited 13d ago

It’s rude to discuss wages at a cocktail party with friends/acquaintances who aren’t your colleagues specifically when you’re bragging about how much you make. It’s smart to discuss wages with coworkers.

→ More replies

2

u/Batman85216 13d ago

What if one worker is way more productive, better at the job and just nicer in general? Do they not deserve more pay than another employee if they happened to be lazy, off sick all the time and a general ass hat?

→ More replies

2

u/Dragonfire14 13d ago

Recently I got a 49 cent raise at work, and the first thing I did was reach out to my coworkers to ask if they got it too.

2

u/nihilus95 13d ago

Only do this at the interview. Never try and do it before when you are applying to jobs. It's a great way unfortunately not to get an interview

→ More replies

2

u/zomgitsduke 13d ago

It is more rude to put short term profits over employees. But here we are...